Please Support Our Sponsors


Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 51

Thread: Perspective

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    661

    Register to remove this advertisement
    Other questions to consider:

    a. Does independence create a situation where our schedule is too light or too heavy, but never as balanced as conference schedules are?
    b. Does Stanford make more exceptions on its admissions than Notre Dame?
    c. Is Harbaugh a better coach than Kelly?
    d. How much of this is simply "getting lucky" with the harmony of a coach and specific player (e.g. Andrew Luck) peaking together?

  2. #22
    Senior Member ACamp1900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasDomer View Post
    Other questions to consider:

    a. Does independence create a situation where our schedule is too light or too heavy, but never as balanced as conference schedules are?
    b. Does Stanford make more exceptions on its admissions than Notre Dame?
    c. Is Harbaugh a better coach than Kelly?
    d. How much of this is simply "getting lucky" with the harmony of a coach and specific player (e.g. Andrew Luck) peaking together?
    My two cents..

    a.) yes, without question, the front loading stuff has killed us...
    b.) no, at least not that I'm aware of
    c.) I would have to say yes, though that's more a compliment to Harbaugh at it may be a bit early to fully answer that fairly
    d.) Luck has a role to play in anything... (getting lucky, not the player... ;) )
    "Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong."-- Calvin Coolidge

  3. #23
    Moderator IrishDodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bryant, Arkansas
    Posts
    17,336
    Quote Originally Posted by tedwick View Post
    True, although for different reasons than academics/Indiana. I don't think ND would have ever given 1 year to a guy whose only significant coaching experience was at a I-AA school that didn't give athletic scholarships, let alone 3 or 5.
    No, ND has preferred HS coaches w/ zero college experience (Faust) & career coordinators w/ zero college or pro head coaching experience (Weis).

  4. #24
    Moderator IrishDodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bryant, Arkansas
    Posts
    17,336
    Palo Alto is definitely more esthetic than South Bend...in more ways than one. It's this simple: win a BCS bowl game (preferably vs a higher ranked team) & the trajectory will skyrocket upward. Recruits will have to consider ND & the press & opposing fans will have to save their "ND isn't relevant" comments for next millennium. Another demand will be silenced, too...."ND has to join a conference". Winning cures EVERYTHING.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,300
    Harbaugh's first 2 years at Stanford were nowhere near as good as Kelly's first 2 at ND. The Jury is still out on that one.

  6. #26
    Moderator IrishDodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bryant, Arkansas
    Posts
    17,336
    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyborn1971 View Post
    Harbaugh's first 2 years at Stanford were nowhere near as good as Kelly's first 2 at ND. The Jury is still out on that one.
    Harbaugh inherited a team that was 16-40 under Buddy Teevans & Walt Harris. The season before Harbaugh arrived they were 1-11. Hard to imagine anyone doing much better than Harbaugh considering the atmosphere of losing that he inherited.

  7. #27
    Administrator HoffVir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    West Chester, OH
    Posts
    21,511
    Is it harder to turn around a losing program with no expectations or an underachieving program that may have the biggest expectations of any program in the country? I don't know. Both are difficult situations.
    ............................||| Notre Dame Notes Spreadsheet |||..........................

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5,364
    Quote Originally Posted by jerseyborn1971 View Post
    Harbaugh's first 2 years at Stanford were nowhere near as good as Kelly's first 2 at ND. The Jury is still out on that one.
    Good point. You could add that Charlie's first two years at ND were better than Kelly's, but his last three were nothing to write home about. Part of the problem is that it's hard to get a good idea of where we are right now.

    In 2005, ND mostly looked like a really good team, and in 2007 they couldn't do anything right: it was obvious where we were in those years, but they were exceptions. It seems like with most 7-5 teams, you can see that they are simply decent/mediocre. They win some games and lose some games without looking too spectacularly good or bad. But for much of the last 15 years, including each of the last four, there have been moments where the Irish have looked like a genuinely good team mixed with moments of eye-gouging ineptitude. (The Tulsa/Navy double-whammy comes to mind).

    On the subject of "perspective," here are some factoids. If ND wins 7+ games this year, they will have three straight winning seasons for the first time since 1998. If they do that without winning a national championship (the NC seems very unlikely) BK would join Elmer Laydon (1934-1940) and Jesse Harper (1913-1917) as the only ND coaches to complete three seasons at ND without a) a losing season or b) a national championship (Harper was 7-0 in 1913). I don't know what, if anything, that says about where ND is and where she is going, but it's interesting nonetheless.
    Last edited by eric_navy; 06-25-2012 at 08:45 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,300
    It is interesting but any comparisons to things ND has done before 1990 don't say much. The landscape of college football is so vastly different now, that comparisons to days of yore don't mean much.

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5,364
    Quote Originally Posted by eric_navy View Post
    If ND wins 7+ games this year, they will have three straight winning seasons for the first time since 1998. If they do that without winning a national championship (the NC seems very unlikely) BK would join Elmer Laydon (1934-1940) and Jesse Harper (1913-1917) as the only ND coaches to complete three seasons at ND without a) a losing season or b) a national championship (Harper was 7-0 in 1913).
    A little more detail since I found it really interesting:
    ND coaches since 1913 (with at least three seasons)

    *Harper: 1913-1917, no NC's or losing seasons, 7-0 in 1913, .863 overall
    Rockne: 1918-1930, NC in 1920 (and '24, '29, '30), .881 overall
    Anderson: 1931-1933, 3-5-2 in 1933, .660 overall
    *Layden: 1934-1940, no NC's or losing seasons, .770 overall
    Leahy: 1941-'43, '46-'53, NC in 1943 (and '46, '47, '49, '53*), .855 overall
    Brennan: 1954-1958, 2-8 in 1956, .640 overall
    Kuharich: 1959-1962, 2-8 in 1960, .425 overall
    Ara: 1964-1974, NC in 1966 (and '73), .836 overall
    Devine: 1975-1980, NC in 1977, .764 overall
    Faust: 1981-1985, 5-6 in 1981 (and '85), .535 overall
    Holtz: 1986-1996, NC in 1988, .765 overall
    Davie: 1997-2001, 5-6 in 1999 (and 2001), .583 overall
    Willingham: 2002-2004, 5-7 in 2003, .583 overall
    Weis: 2005-2009, 3-9 in 2007, .564 overall
    Kelly: 2010-20??, 8-5 in '10 and '11, .615 overall

    Other interesting notes, which are probably not new to any of you:
    -Lou Holtz is the only ND coach to have won a national championship (1988) AND had a losing season (5-6 in 1986), although Leahy and Rockne both came pretty close.

    -Every championship coach at ND has won his first one in year 3.

    -Elmer Layden and Jesse Harper are the two coaches to have had neither a championship nor a losing record by year 3. The worst season either coach had was Layden's first year, when his team was 7-3. If BK followed a similar career path, I think we would be satisfied waiting a little longer for another championship.

    -Only 1 ND coach (Terry Brennan) has won between 58% and 76% of his games. He was fired in 1958 with a record of .640, which seems a little unfair until you look at a little closer at his records year-by-year. BK needs to average 8.5 wins over the next three years to match this record. Given the different circumstances, this would almost certainly keep him around past year five.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A fresh perspective...
    By MoeMontana in forum Notre Dame Football
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-26-2010, 03:37 PM
  2. another perspective
    By ndcufan in forum Notre Dame Football
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2009, 11:13 AM
  3. Some Perspective
    By sreepointer in forum Notre Dame Football
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-28-2009, 09:45 AM
  4. Outsider Perspective
    By Gold Helmet in forum Ye Olde Shamrock Pub
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-30-2008, 10:08 PM
  5. Historical Perspective
    By IrishDodger in forum Ye Olde Shamrock Pub
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-28-2008, 04:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •