Irish vs. Skunkbears

[IrishCalves]

I started this up under a recruit's thread, but I figured with the news on Ethan Johnson, I'd have to update it again - and devote more attention to it, since it is worth monitoring (as it would be with other rival schools).

Needless to say, the Irish are kicking tail on the recruiting trail. It appears that the most abused victim out there has been Michigan. Not every loss was a knockout blow, but... the list runs pretty long:

- QB Dayne Crist - not like they had much of a chance, but though enough of him to offer
- TE Kyle Rudolph - they honestly had no chance here. If it wasn't ND, it'd be OSU.
- WR John Goodman - had ND written all over him, but they liked him nevertheless.
- OL Lane Clelland - was supposedly a UM lean, then surprised everyone.
- OL Braxston Cave - do you really think they'd prefer Rocko (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=162&p=8&c=1&nid=2874237) Khoury?
- DL Omar Hunter - the biggest upset by far. Went from nearly verballing to UM the day he was offered by them, to ending up with Corwin. Ouch.
- DL Ethan Johnson - Everyone at GBW should be officially pimp slapped for this one. ND was just a one day visit, and UM would be in 'until (http://michigan.scout.com/2/653486.html) the end... well they were right on one thing! They were in it... until the end. GET IT!?!? :cool:

Seriously though, my former high school paper puts out more reliable stories. :eek:
-LB Darius Fleming - they visited the kid, and the only other school to show that much interest was (take a wild guess... )
- DB Robert Blanton - 3 years of camping with the Wolverines, only to verbal at ND's campus during the 4th. Can you hear the chants for Corwin already? I mean can ya?
- DB Jamoris Slaughter - he liked 'em as a kid, but he's Irish now.

A grand total of 10 commits. 5 on defense, 5 on offense... 4 and 5 star recruits left and right... guys voted MVP at UM camp... yeah, its just water off their backs right now, they didn't need these guys, its no big :rolleyes:.

And as a rebuttle, the Skunkbears have landed (drumroll please)!

- TE Brandon Moore - ... who committed after ND wrapped things up at TE, with Rudolph and Fauria in the fold. He's a good prospect, but...erm... yeah...

They'll get theirs at some point - they pretty much have to with the law of averages, I mean right? ...

... but at this point, its starting to look like there is only one Wolverine that can save them...

http://wolverine.x-knights.com/fullsize/wolverine107.jpg

[Ricochet]

well done, love the post.

[NDGirlzRock]

Guess the "Skunkbears" just got tomato juice thrown on their party!

[Svoboda]

Nice. Reps.

[SpanishElite]

Its great just to see all of those names together all commited to ND.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Hey nicecalves..nice post. I'll have to take your word about your calves tho.

:P

[rontdtarchala]

any time...and I do mean anytime we can stick it to the......skunkbears (twitch-shake-twitch-wretch) I freakin love it!

[untitledproject]

Nice job of spelling Weis incorrectly there dallas/trojan. Either you STILL can't spell the guy's name after 3 years of putting up with his name, or thats a good dig - you certainly know how to get under ND fan's skin.

I have to admit, USC fans aren't going bonkers like UM fans have with he venom after a kid they offered picked ND. UM fans are pretty quick to shoot venomous denial this year, since we've stolen a couple life long fans of their and a couple UM leans (Hunter, Clelland, Slaughter, Blanton).

That said, this kid is a consensus top 50 player. A perfect fit for what the Irish are trying to do on defense. At 6'4" 266 (rivals), he's not quite big enough to be ready to play 4-3 tackle, but his game isn't really suited to come off the edge in the 4-3 either. Came away with MVP honors at the Michigan camp about a week ago - they said his first step was incredible, was getting by lineman before they could get out of their stance. Perfect build and type of game for the 3-4 end.

With the way ND has sucked it up on defense, and horrendously botched their recruiting efforts on the defensive line (we've had to switch 3 offensive lineman over this year to patch holes there its so thin right now), this is a signature get for ND. 5 DL gets this year, topped off with a top 50 recruit? It definitely helps, and it makes a statement when you can go into a state as far away as Oregon, and fight off your top two rivals (USC and UM) to get a guy ON DEFENSE for a change.

IrishCalves | 06/30/07

LOL

[rontdtarchala]

I think I could read that 20 more times

[MirageSmack]

In a related note....

Brandon Newman was a lifelong Michigan fan. His dad lives there. While they didn't offer him early, they probably could have by now after missing so many other opportunities. So he would have turned them down as well.

Do we count that as a half?

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Sounds good to me.

[IrishCalves]

I don't think we can count it. Its a good footnote if you ask me, but from a #'s standpoint you can't make that argument. If we did, I'm sure some UM clown rebuttal could be, "But Kurt Wermers is from Indiana, so that one counts as a half a get too!"

[IrishCalves]

Michigan just made two more pickups in their class - WR Darryl Stonum, and QB John Wienke (spelled differently than former FSU QB Chris Weinke, so no relation).

Stonum is a solid 4 star receiver by both services, who is a pretty good pickup for them. To give ND guys some perspective, he's not quite on par with Michael Floyd, but he's in the ballpark.

Wienke is a 3 star QB recruit by rivals, and apparently has yet to be rated by scout. A decent translation would probably be Evan Sharpley, for ND fans to consider. Sharpley was a high 3 - low 4 star prospect, which Wienke seems on track to be, when all is said and done.

Whats the significance? Two more prospects in the bank that the Irish didn't make an offer to. We sniffed out Stonum early on, but we never became all that involved with him.

Sam McGuffie is up for a 4 day visit, so the Skunkbears may get their first noteworthy "win" in the recruiting wars with the Irish. 'Til then, the score is still 10-1 Irish.

[rontdtarchala]

I'd like mc g but i prefer people that can make him afraid to handle the ball

[IrishKnight1023]

Calves you are a great poster, but the 10-1 thing needs to end. Moore had his spot taken by Fauria and it's even mentioned in articles. DON'T GIVE THE SKUNKBEARS ANY. McGuffie is not an ND kid and after hearing him speak and seeing him advertise himself, I have my opinions of him that I won't say.

[IrishCalves]

I think we're comparing apples to oranges.

I know full well that Brandon Moore wasn't a real "victory" for UM. We wrapped things up about 3 weeks before his verbal. Whoop de do UM, man you really stuck it to us there.

But what I am saying is, Notre Dame thought enough of him to extend an offer.

If I were judging it by your criteria, then I'd have to lop of Dayne Crist. Yes, they offered him, but it was only after he coaxed it out of him. They never even got a visit from him, and never really had a good shot. I could probably argue a similar course for Kyle Rudolph. If it wasn't ND, it'd be OSU. The Skunkbears never had a prayer there, so its hard to claim victory over someone you never really had to beat.

So... I guess I include Moore because its not just some blood-thirsty "who won?" contest. Its also my way of figuring out how many of their guys were good enough to earn an ND offer, and how many of ours were good enough to earn a UM offer. Its not just wins and losses, its the talent that we see on opposing sidelines.I don't think I articulated it that well, but maybe you can follow?

[IrishKnight1023]

I follow, i just hate Michigan and their fans.

[HoffVir]

I follow, i just hate Michigan and their fans.

Amen. I was terrified Omar was going to end up at Meat Chicken. After I saw his video the first time I prayed he didn't end up in Ann Arbor (or any other ND opponent). I wasn't really thinking he'd ND up at ND ... this makes it so much sweeter.

[IrishCalves]

I follow, i just hate Michigan and their fans.

Now THAT I'd drink to - and I'm still under aged. Every fanbase has a small minority of tolerable fans, that can engage in good clean give and take. That said, while USC fans have an arrogance about them nowadays, UM fans... just plain ugh. I don't even know where to begin.

Anywho, on another note Dan McCarthy is close to lopping off UM and Stanford from his list. So at least we know he won't fall to the Skunkbears. Here's an impromptu list of guys remaining to receive offers from both schools:

QB Terrelle Pryor
RB Darrell Scott
RB Sam McGuffie
WR Michael Floyd
WR Jonathan Baldwin
TE Blake Ayles
OL Kenneth Page
OL Josh Jenkins
OL Matt Patchan
DL Kapron Lewis-Moore
DL Garret Goebel
LB Steve Filer
LB Shayne Hale
LB Arthur Brown
DB Dan McCarthy
DB Will Hill

A lot of these kids will pick other schools, but the ones italicized and bolded have stronger odds of picking at least one of the schools (though its a very inexact science).

[IrishCalves]

Update.

Now that Dan McCarthy and Steve Filer have hopped on the train to ND, the offer ratio is now 12:1 ND-UM. In those terms the results are stunning, but they ultimately don't tell the whole story. But I digress.

We all knew that McCarthy was either ND or OSU, most likely ND. That one was hardly a battle, but either way we know UM thought enough of him to at least give it a try.

The interesting note comes from Filer. This was published yesterday, regarding his commitment (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/480686,CST-SPT-cruit24.article):


"In the beginning, Notre Dame wasn't at the top of my list. I liked Ohio State and Michigan,'' Filer said. ''But I got a good feeling for the players and coaches. In the end, I felt Notre Dame was the best move for me and my family. It is close to home and it will give me a good education."

So, that got me thinking. Rather than some cut and dry list of offers vs. offers, lets look at how these "battles" really shaped up.

Those listed in gold are the players ND landed, and those listed in blue are those UM landed. The categories explain what the odds were going into the "battle". To whatever degree the odds were will be articulated.

Odds: UM > ND

Lane Clelland - Rumored as a slight UM lean after he visited both schools. ND commitment came out of the blue.
Brandon Moore - One of the articles from scout is titled, "Moore always knew he'd be a Wolverine."
Omar Hunter - UM was heavy childhood favorite. Almost committed to UM as soon as he was offered. Was essentially visiting up North to commit to UM; had to be talked into visiting ND by his HS coach. Big time upset.
Robert Blanton - Camped at UM 3 years running. As his post-happy step dad has articulated, they still managed to be slow to the punch.
Jamoris Slaughter - Followed UM as a kid. Not to the same degree as Hunter, but still a fan.
Steve Filer - Listed UM as ahead of ND when the process started. See quote above.

Odds: UM = ND

Dayne Crist - Played the whole process as very open minded. If anything, USC stood the best chance going into this one.
Darius Fleming - Was pretty much up for grabs regarding Big 10 country.

Odds: UM < ND

John Goodman - Indiana product had "Domer" written all over him from the get-go.
Braxston Cave - See John Goodman.
Kyle Rudolph - He wanted the ND offense for TE's, plain and simple.
Ethan Johnson - ND's academics buttered him up well in advance of his extended summer visit.
Dan McCarthy - With a name like "McCarthy", he has to be ND.

So what does this all mean? First, they've held their own. There isn't one kid on their side that I can honestly look at and say, "He should have been Irish. The staff made a boo-boo letting him slip through the cracks."

Second, with the kids that slightly favored UM, they've used hustle as their primary weapon, to still come away with a kid. Blanton is the perfect example for that.

Third, they landed Omar Hunter. I cannot begin to tell you what a massive upset that outcome was. To go all the way from having a kid damn near verbal the day he got the UM offer - after rooting for them throughout his 17-18 year old life - to getting the kid to pledge to ND, after just one visit? That is a recruiting miracle. Don't let the UM "Mike Martin is better" boo-birds downplay this one, or rain on your parade. This was huge, and this one definitely stung.

So what's the moral of the story here?

What though the odds be great or small...;)

[Fishin'_Irish]

Update.

Now that Dan McCarthy and Steve Filer have hopped on the train to ND, the offer ratio is now 12:1 ND-UM. In those terms the results are stunning, but they ultimately don't tell the whole story. But I digress.

We all knew that McCarthy was either ND or OSU, most likely ND. That one was hardly a battle, but either way we know UM thought enough of him to at least give it a try.

The interesting note comes from Filer. This was published yesterday, regarding his commitment (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/480686,CST-SPT-cruit24.article):



So, that got me thinking. Rather than some cut and dry list of offers vs. offers, lets look at how these "battles" really shaped up.

Those listed in gold are the players ND landed, and those listed in blue are those UM landed. The categories explain what the odds were going into the "battle". To whatever degree the odds were will be articulated.

Odds: UM > ND

Lane Clelland - Rumored as a slight UM lean after he visited both schools. ND commitment came out of the blue.
Brandon Moore - One of the articles from scout is titled, "Moore always knew he'd be a Wolverine."
Omar Hunter - UM was heavy childhood favorite. Almost committed to UM as soon as he was offered. Was essentially visiting up North to commit to UM; had to be talked into visiting ND by his HS coach. Big time upset.
Robert Blanton - Camped at UM 3 years running. As his post-happy step dad has articulated, they still managed to be slow to the punch.
Jamoris Slaughter - Followed UM as a kid. Not to the same degree as Hunter, but still a fan.
Steve Filer - Listed UM as ahead of ND when the process started. See quote above.

Odds: UM = ND

Dayne Crist - Played the whole process as very open minded. If anything, USC stood the best chance going into this one.
Darius Fleming - Was pretty much up for grabs regarding Big 10 country.

Odds: UM < ND

John Goodman - Indiana product had "Domer" written all over him from the get-go.
Braxston Cave - See John Goodman.
Kyle Rudolph - He wanted the ND offense for TE's, plain and simple.
Ethan Johnson - ND's academics buttered him up well in advance of his extended summer visit.
Dan McCarthy - With a name like "McCarthy", he has to be ND.

So what does this all mean? First, they've held their own. There isn't one kid on their side that I can honestly look at and say, "He should have been Irish. The staff made a boo-boo letting him slip through the cracks."

Second, with the kids that slightly favored UM, they've used hustle as their primary weapon, to still come away with a kid. Blanton is the perfect example for that.

Third, they landed Omar Hunter. I cannot begin to tell you what a massive upset that outcome was. To go all the way from having a kid damn near verbal the day he got the UM offer - after rooting for them throughout his 17-18 year old life - to getting the kid to pledge to ND, after just one visit? That is a recruiting miracle. Don't let the UM "Mike Martin is better" boo-birds downplay this one, or rain on your parade. This was huge, and this one definitely stung.

So what's the moral of the story here?

What though the odds be great or small...;)

This is why your the man.

[NDGirlzRock]

Ditto!!!! Ol' Notre Dame is starting to win over all again!

[tedwick]

hate to rain on everybody's parade... but we shouldn't get used to this. i get the feeling this is a very abnormal year. first, we've got new coach recruiting mo. even better, he's from michigan. second, carr's old. that makes coaching at UM uncertain. third, ND seems to be getting off the Michigan leans faster than UM gets off the ND leans. see McGuffie, Hale, Brown, Hill, Pryor, etc. all guys that ND got off real early, but had it been the other way, UM might not have let up on.

ND's having a great year recruiting, especially head to head with michigan... but it won't last, and it may not be as pronounced as it looks.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Tedwick.....you should ALWAYS carry an umbrella. :)

[marv81s]

http://studentweb.med.harvard.edu/SH71/html/harvardbbs/photos/parade_1_street.jpg


Thanks for raining on our parade Ted (ha ha)

[rontdtarchala]

is he a ND fan or not...I'm confused geez stay away from my parties

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Tedwick is a big fan. He is just a sourpuss. LOL

[tedwick]

Tedwick is a big fan. He is just a sourpuss. LOLi'm comfortable being the resident poopy pants. : D

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Too late. The pattern....is full.

[IrishCalves]

i'm comfortable being the resident poopy pants. : D

No need to verbally spat, since I'm not even irritated at your comments or anything, but...? Just a little confused why you mentioned the "don't expect this every year" message, when I wasn't even implying that. With Lloyd's remaining tenure in question, and there still being mystery as to who fills his shoes, I'd be foolish to think that every year will be "Hang the Skunkbear" in recruiting wars. Seemed sort of unprompted, so I'm curious what did.

[tedwick]

No need to verbally spat, since I'm not even irritated at your comments or anything, but...? Just a little confused why you mentioned the "don't expect this every year" message, when I wasn't even implying that. With Lloyd's remaining tenure in question, and there still being mystery as to who fills his shoes, I'd be foolish to think that every year will be "Hang the Skunkbear" in recruiting wars. Seemed sort of unprompted, so I'm curious what did.haha, i don't look for fights. except with stoney. : D

anyway, it just seemed like the sentiment was "haha, we've got them on the run! notre dame is back!" i was just pointing out that this is almost certainly a one, maybe two year anomaly. i understand the point of your post. mine wasn't really in response to anything in particular, so much as it was a comment on the ensuing warm, fuzzy, skunkbears-must-die sentiment. : D

[HoffVir]

haha, i don't look for fights. except with stoney. : D

anyway, it just seemed like the sentiment was "haha, we've got them on the run! notre dame is back!" i was just pointing out that this is almost certainly a one, maybe two year anomaly. i understand the point of your post. mine wasn't really in response to anything in particular, so much as it was a comment on the ensuing warm, fuzzy, skunkbears-must-die sentiment. : D

But they must die, ted, they must. :D

[MirageSmack]

I disagree tedwick. What you say may come true, but you speak as if it's a given. USC has proven it can be done.

[Fishin'_Irish]

I disagree tedwick. What you say may come true, but you speak as if it's a given. USC has proven it can be done.

Yes, awesome recruiting classes can be done. I think he is saying that we can't win every recruiting battle with UM in the upcoming years like we have this year.

[IrishCalves]

I would be surprised if these kinds of results carried over. Events like the Omar Hunter surprise happen once in a blue moon - let alone once in a blue moon vs. the same school. But we can all agree that when you look at results like these, the crystal ball looks a lot more optimistic than, say, the 2004 recruiting cycle.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Let's suffice it to say that we are trending in the right direction. That, in and of itself, is a positive. I like our chances for next year better than I did the current one at the same time.