Rivals/Scout/ESPN150 on ND Commits

[irishunclebill]

The rankings for the 15 ND commits by Scout and Rivals are virtually identical at this point. Each have one 5 star in Rudolph, and each have Cave, Golic, Poz, and Hafis Williams as 3 stars.

There are 3 differences. Big Omar is a 4 star on Rivals, and a 3 star on Scout, and Newman is a 3 star on Rivals and a 4 star on Scout. Scout’s latest evaluation also dropped Fauria to a 3 star, he is a 4 star on Rivals.

Blanton, Clelland, Crist, Cwynar, Fleming, Goodman & McDonald are all 4 stars on both sites. The current average star rankings for the 15 ND commits is 3.73 on Rivals & 3.67 on Scout.

Now for the ESPN 150 which is different as usual. Last year, the ESPN 150 had the highest rankings for the ND recruiting class of all the major recruiting boards, and it looks like this year will be a repeat of the same. Although Rudolph would not be considered a 5 star on the ESPN board, (need a Scout grade of 84 or higher for that) he and 11 other current ND recruits are all on the ESPN 150 Watch List, which is the Rivals/Scout equivalent of being a 4 star. The only 3 ND recruits who are not on the ESPN 150 Watch List are Golic, Goodman, and Hafis Williams, none of whom have been fully evaluated yet. If they get the equivalent ratings that they have on Rivals/Scout, ND would have the equivalent of thirteen 4 stars , and two 3 stars on the ESPN board, which would give ND an average star ranking there of 3.87.

In summary with the assumptions listed above.

Rivals- One 5 star , Nine 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.73

Scout- = One 5 star , Eight 4 stars, and Six 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.67

ESPN 150- Thirteen 4 stars, and Two 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.87

[rontdtarchala]

I want to see us at an avg of 4+ stars.....is that possible!

[IrishKnight1023]

I want to see us at an avg of 4+ stars.....is that possible!

---If you get more 5* than 3* so, basically it's not going to happen.

[irishunclebill]

Scout has once again returned Fauria to a 4 star & Hunter is also now a Scout 4 star. With those changes, Scout actually rates the current ND recruiting class higher than Rivals. They must have lost one of their USC guys at the Scout main office, this is a first.

Updated as of 6/25/07
Rivals- One 5 star , Nine 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.73

Scout- = One 5 star , Ten 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.80

ESPN 150- Thirteen 4 stars, and Two 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.87

[irishunclebill]

Scout has now also made Braxston Cave a 4 star and a member of their 300 list at #251. ND now has 12 of their committed recruits on the Scout 300, the only exclusions are Golic, POZ, and Hafis Williams. The ND Average Star Ranking on Scout is now 3.87, which is the same as the ESPN 150.

[IrishKnight1023]

Scout has now also made Braxston Cave a 4 star and a member of their 300 list at #251. ND now has 12 of their committed recruits on the Scout 300, the only exclusions are Golic, POZ, and Hafis Williams. The ND Average Star Ranking on Scout is now 3.87, which is the same as the ESPN 150.

-------I really think the Hafis thing is because there is ZERO film on him. I mean has anybody Rivals or Scout even seen one shred of film? All I know is I know the High School which is nasty and the kids a straight beast. Just makes me all that more excited to see his film if or when it ever sees the light of day. Kind of like Poz. who's film is mostly from scrimmages and him showing off his wheels at RB. 3 guys out of 15 are 3 stars? if you look at UCLA's recruiting compared to ours we are definently ahead of them now with nothing but 4 and 5 star studs waiting to jump aboard the ND train.

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 6/29/07

To reflect verbals of Slaughter & EJ. Slaughter is a 4 star on both Rivals & Scout and an equivalent 5 star on ESPN. EJ is a 5 star on Scout, a 4 star on Rivals, and an equivalent 4 star on ESPN.

Rivals- One 5 star , Eleven 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.76

Scout- Two 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Three 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.94

ESPN 150- One 5 star, Fourteen 4 stars, and Two 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.94

[goirish41]

I want to see us at an avg of 4+ stars.....is that possible!

When Floyd commits, this will happen rontdtarchala. And, it will be a nice thing to see.

[irishunclebill]

When Floyd commits, this will happen rontdtarchala. And, it will be a nice thing to see.

Absolutely, Floyd is a Scout 5 star, and an ESPN equivalent 5 star, so if he commits, ND would have a nice round 4.0 avg. on both Scout & ESPN. It is also likely to stay that way as well as most of the recruits left on the ND horizon are 4 or 5 stars on most recruiting boards.

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 7/17/07

To reflect verbal of Dan McCarthy. McCarthy is a 4 star on both Rivals & Scout and an equivalent 4 star on ESPN.

Rivals- One 5 star , Twelve 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.78

Scout- Two 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Three 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.94

ESPN 150- One 5 star, Fifteen 4 stars, and Two 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.94

[irishunclebill]

By the way, you might want to take a snapshot of these, because it is quite a momentous day in ND recruiting, as the Irish right now have the #1 ranked recruiting class on both Rivals & Scout. See links.


Rivals 2008 Team Rankings as of 7/17/07 (http://rivals100.rivals.com/teamrank.asp)

Scout 2008 Team Rankings as of 7/17/07 (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2008)

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 7/30/07


To reflect verbal of Steve Filer. Filer is a 4 star on Rivals, a 5 star on Scout and an equivalent 4 star on ESPN. With Filer's verbal ND now has a perfect 4.0 on Scout, and they remain #1 on both Scout and Rivals.

Also the new ESPN rankings have all 19 ND recruits at a 4 star equivalent or higher. Crist & Hunter are rated as equivalent 5 stars, the other 17 are all equivalent 4 stars.

Rivals- One 5 star , Thirteen 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.79

Scout- Three 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Three 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.11

[eric_navy]

Since 2002, there have been only 3 classes with a Rivals avg. > 4.

2002 Florida State
6 5*
14 4*
2 3*
1 2*
for an avg. of 4.09

2004 USC
8 5*
7 4*
3 3*
2 2*
for an average of 4.05

2007 USC
6 5*
10 4*
2 3*
for an avg. of 4.22

In 2005 and 2006 USC's averages were 3.95 and 3.96... ridiculous.

To put that in perspective, only 1 other class (since 2002) has had an average over 3.9 and only 7 others have been above 3.8:

2002 Texas (3.89)
2002 Tennessee (3.96)
2003 Michigan (3.82) - this class was ranked #17???
2005 Forida State (3.82)
2005 Miami (3.82)
2006 Florida (3.89)
2007 Florida (3.89)
2007 LSU (3.88)

We are poised to break the 3.8 mark this year (currently 3.79) along with OSU (3.9) and USC (4.00)

[Irishkid]

wow

[MoeMontana]

I think this class will put us over the top in terms of talent. They are just too good. If we secure another five-star player and a couple of more fours --- we'll finish with the number one spot nationally.

After three solid years of recruiting, I think it's not so much wishful thinking anymore to talk about future championships.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

i dont know, moe.... USC could really push late.

and OSU is having an absolutely MONSTER class.... that can be arguably seen as better than ours.

[ND Fanatic]

i dont know, moe.... USC could really push late.

and OSU is having an absolutely MONSTER class.... that can be arguably seen as better than ours.


I don't think that O$U will have the numbers to catch us. They have a good class going, but its going to end up a little short of ours.

[YoungIrish]

I think we will be top 3..I dont think USC will pass us...they are having a great class..but I looked and there not in the hunt with to many 5 stars..if we can finish with atleast 5 more 4 stars we will be good..plus I feel Crist will get bumped to 5 star and Hafis Williams will get a 4th star...I mean come on..the kid was on the 2nd team all american junior list last year..I think if OSU lands Pryor, Hale, and a few more good guys they could give us a run..but I dont think there going to take more then like 18 or something..they have limited schollys..so I think we will edge them out...FSU could give us a push and Miami also...realistically speaking I can see us with a number 1...but most importantly this will be just another piece of the puzzle that will lead us to a championship..

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

I think we will be top 3..I dont think USC will pass us...they are having a great class..but I looked and there not in the hunt with to many 5 stars


USC already has 3 committed 5* players.... their avg star ranking is a 4, which is absolutely unreal. they will, like always, end with an incredible class... and their success on the field this year will only help their recruiting cause.

[NDGirlzRock]

USC already has 3 committed 5* players.... their avg star ranking is a 4, which is absolutely unreal. they will, like always, end with an incredible class... and their success on the field this year will only help their recruiting cause.

This puzzles me...they have 3 5* guys and their rating is over a 4. How is that? Look at OU they have I believe 3 5* guys and I don't see them over a 4. Oh well! What the hell....as long as we are in the top 3 I don't care.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

it's the avg. star rating of each player. that means USC has 3 5*, 3 3*, and the rest are 4*.

OU has a lower ranking b/c they have more 3* than 5*.


it's just a running average.

[napoleonbuck]

I don't think that O$U will have the numbers to catch us. They have a good class going, but its going to end up a little short of ours.

We probably won't have the total points, but our star average should be around 4 or higher on both Scouts and Rivals.

We could end up with 6-9 Scout five stars, and 3-5 Rivals five stars, depending on if we get Hale and Pryor and if some recruits(DeVier Posey or Andrew Sweat) move up just a few spots, though that's unlikely since they're comitted).

Our lowest rated recruit should be our kicker/punter, a kid that will likely break a few Ohio field goal distance records before he leaves high school.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

quality beats quantity any day... unless you are razor thin in a position like we are on DL. OSU is having a monster recruiting year.... one of the best ever.... period.

[scooper]

quality beats quantity any day... unless you are razor thin in a position like we are on DL. OSU is having a monster recruiting year.... one of the best ever.... period.


Quality beat quantity, but quantity increases the chances of having somebody pan out.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

im pretty sure coaches dont like to take risks with recruits. i dont think their mindset would be "well, lets take 5 average linebackers and hope one blossoms like my garden lotus."

[scooper]

im pretty sure coaches dont like to take risks with recruits. i dont think their mindset would be "well, lets take 5 average linebackers and hope one blossoms like my garden lotus."

I'm not talking about 5 average. I'm talking about multiple good ones. Let's go back to our buckeye "friends." If they had put all their linebacker eggs in the D'Andrea basket a few years ago, they may have missed out on Mr. Laura Quinn or Bobby Carpenter. Those were lesser rated guys who turned out to be much better players.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

good point, and i think we all learned that from last year with donald and wright. but, hypothetically speaking, i'd MUCH rather land 2 highly rated LB's than a group of 4 or 5 so-called average backers with no standout talent. there are exceptions to the rule, but i think it's hard to say that anyone, again barring thin depth-charts, would prefer a large haul of mediocrity over a small group of elite talent.

i remember when we were goin nuts because we landed big ian b/c he was our first true DT prospect in a long time... and we had a major DLine deficiency... but honestly, how would you have felt if we picked him up this year? just as happy?

[scooper]

good point, and i think we all learned that from last year with donald and wright. but, hypothetically speaking, i'd MUCH rather land 2 highly rated LB's than a group of 4 or 5 so-called average backers with no standout talent. there are exceptions to the rule, but i think it's hard to say that anyone, again barring thin depth-charts, would prefer a large haul of mediocrity over a small group of elite talent.

i remember when we were goin nuts because we landed big ian b/c he was our first true DT prospect in a long time... and we had a major DLine deficiency... but honestly, how would you have felt if we picked him up this year? just as happy?


I'd be happy with Ian this year as part of our 5 man haul. He was not exactly chopped liver. We needed quantity at DL this year regardless of quality. Thankfully, we got both.

Next year will be a real test of how our staff approaches this question when the available scholarships are limited.

[scooper]

Also, another point on star averages- fans like to point out their star averages as the true indicator of a class when that is not really the case. Again, this goes back to quantity.

Explanation: I won't deal with 25 players to keep this simple. But let's say we have two teams who have landed these players:

Team A
3 *****
4****
3***
This is a four star average. Now, let's say at least two of those 3 star guys are near the very top of the three star list. For the sake of this argument, This would be a class with nice quality and good quantity.

Team B
4 *****
2 ****
1 ***

This class averages 4.4 stars, roughly. It includes one more five star, but two less four stars. It has three less players overall.

Considering booms and busts and sleepers who break out, I'd take the first class over the second-star average be damned. I just think there's a better chance to get some good players out of that class. Overall the first group may have less 5's but has more 4's and 5's combined. The 3's drag the average down, but they also increase the chance of finding that next A.J. Hawk.

[Troy's Enterprise Pride]

good point... it would be nice to have extra players, regardless of star ranking... but if there happened to be a strict scholarship limit, i'd want to load up on as many elite players as possible and play the odds.

[scooper]

Yes, definately. Or, even with many sholarship available, load up on elite guys. I'm just saying fans who point to average star ratings as the real indicator are not telling the whole story, either.

[napoleonbuck]

I think it's more of a true indicator than the current ranking system is though, especially when you consider how many non-qualifiers some teams have(Auburn last year has at least ten, and could have as many as twelve from their thirty man class).

Ohio State only recruits qualifiers, so we don't over recruit. Ohio State also does a good job of limiting transfers. Some transfer because they're homesick or they're not getting a lot of playing time, but that's usually around 2 per year.

I think it really depends on the situation when ranking classes. It's stupid to rank an Auburn or LSU class really high when a fifth, or maybe even a third of their recruits won't even be there. But it also isn't fair to rank an Ohio State class low because they have a low number of schollies and good depth.

That's why I think the cumulative point system that the recruiting sites use are just stupid, especially when you consider they don't even take into account recruiting needs.

[scooper]

I think it's more of a true indicator than the current ranking system is though, especially when you consider how many non-qualifiers some teams have(Auburn last year has at least ten, and could have as many as twelve from their thirty man class). I don't think it's a better indicator. But I think both together help tell the whole story. The idea that anybody can tell the difference between the 3rd best class or 5th best class before the kids even graduate HS is kind of silly. You could say the proof will be on the field in 3 years, but even that argument ignores factors such as coaching, fit to systems, injuries, chemistry, scheduling and just plain luck. College football isn't played in a recruiting vacuum or Pete Carrol would have more than one title.

Another good indicator is need. ND needed DL and LB badly. We got some good quantity and quality, but a couple of them maybe at the expense of taking a guy who was higher rated at let's say CB. The CB in question may help a team's ranking or star average, but when you are already deep at his position, which player helps more? I'd say the guys at the position of dire need.


Ohio State only recruits qualifiers, so we don't over recruit. Ohio State also does a good job of limiting transfers. Some transfer because they're homesick or they're not getting a lot of playing time, but that's usually around 2 per year.

Great point on the qualifiers. Obviously, ND operates in the same manner. We had a rash of transfers from the coaching change, but I think that's bound to happen.


I think it really depends on the situation when ranking classes. It's stupid to rank an Auburn or LSU class really high when a fifth, or maybe even a third of their recruits won't even be there. But it also isn't fair to rank an Ohio State class low because they have a low number of schollies and good depth.
Agreed. This happened to UGA recently as well. In reality, these rankings exist more to entertain and appease the fan base than as an indicator of future success.


That's why I think the cumulative point system that the recruiting sites use are just stupid, especially when you consider they don't even take into account recruiting needs.I had not read this yet when I posted the above, so I see we were on the same page. But in this case, you can say the same time, star average can discount the need just as much as the point system.

At this point, if the Irish fininsh first in rankings, it's more for pride than anything. They will finish with a class full of talented players that fit the system adn filled some huge holes.

I beat this drum again and again, but the Texas team that won the national title was comprised of one top 5 class (think it was #1,) one top 10 class and two classes that ranked in the teens. Teams just need to recruit enough talented players that fit their needs and system and coach them up.

[eric_navy]

I think the recruiting sites use a modified system of just adding the total number of stars for ranking right? The "modified" part accounts for distribution across different positions, etc. By this standard, in scooper's example team A wins with 40 total stars compared to only 31 on team B. A trickier one to pick would be something more like

Team A
0 *****
10 ****
0 ***

Team B
5 *****
0 ****
5 ***

Both teams here have the same number and same avg. This is probably not a realistic example, but I think it illustrates the importance of distribution and addressing the needs of the team, although now that I look at it, it might be hard for me to pick team A

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 8/07/07


To reflect Braxston Cave picking up a Rivals 4 star.

Rivals- One 5 star , Fourteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.84

Scout- Three 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Three 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.11

[IrishKnight1023]

They also bumped Fauria down to a 5.8 from a 5.9 which I think is laughable because he dominated at 7 on 7's and even against their newest top 100 member Janoris Jenkins. I think maybe they were just compensating for bumping up Cave.

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 8/13/07


To reflect Braxston Cave losing a Scout 4 star, and Dayne Crist moving up to a Scout 5 star. Net effect is the same, ND continues to have a 4.0 Average Star Ranking on Scout.

Rivals- One 5 star , Fourteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.84

Scout- Four 5 stars , Eleven 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.11

[NDGirlzRock]

They never cease to amaze me!!!

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 10/10/07


To reflect latest Rivals update as Dayne Crist moves up to a Rivals 5 star.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.89

Scout- Four 5 stars , Eleven 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.11

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 10/16/07


To reflect latest Scout update as Steven Filer loses a Scout 5 star.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.89

Scout- Three 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.95

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.11

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 10/22/07


To reflect Michael Floyd's verbal commit to ND. After a brief stay at #2 on the Rivals Team rankings, Notre Dame takes back the #1 spot. Scout has had ND as #1 for almost 4 months. Floyd is also a Scout 5 star so his commit brings ND's 2008 class back up to 4.00 star average on Scout.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Fourteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.90

Scout- Four 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Seventeen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.15

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 10/24/07


To reflect Jonas Gray's verbal commit to ND.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Fifteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.90

Scout- Four 5 stars , Thirteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Eighteen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.14

[go irish]

I'm really looking foward to the up coming years of Notre Dame football we are
getting some great players who can come in and make an impact right away I'm ready
to see the great days of Notre Dame football again and ready to bring a national championship
back to South Bend. GO IRISH!

[GoldenShower]

For those of you with ESPN Insider access, a revision to their team rankings has the Irish at #2 (up from #3)
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/insider/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3108270


I just listened to Luginbill talk on ESPN's College FB live in the background about ND. He pretty much gave credit to the recruiting of Weis and mentioned Floyd / Hunter with their highlights.

To paraphrase the rankings for those interested...Take it FWIW. Most everyone (except ESPN) obviously disagrees with Miami. Luginbill also stressed the importance of this Michigan - OSU game to determine whether Michigan falls apart or rises significantly with recruiting and then suggested that Florida may have limited scholarships but very high quality. Again, FWIW

1. (1) Miami (FL)
21 verbal commitments, 11 ESPN 150 prospects


2. (3) Notre Dame
21 verbal commitments, nine ESPN 150 prospects


3. (2) USC
14 verbal commitments, seven ESPN 150 prospects


4. (4) Georgia
23 verbal commitments, seven ESPN 150 prospects


5. (6) Ohio State
14 verbal commitments, eight ESPN 150 prospects


6. (5) Texas
19 verbal commitments, eight ESPN 150 prospects


7. (7) Oklahoma
16 verbal commitments, six ESPN 150 prospects


8. (8) Clemson
15 verbal commitments, six ESPN 150 prospects


9. (10) Alabama
21 verbal commitments, three ESPN 150 prospects


10. (9) Florida State
18 verbal commitments, six ESPN 150 prospects


On the cusp: Florida, 11 verbal commitments (HS), five ESPN 150 prospects

[Sureal]

ND is number two by ESPN standards...

Surprise...

[IrishKnight1023]

Their rating system is just awful. USC one spot behind us with only 14 verbals? That's ESPN for you....if they have a USC offer then they must be the best.

[daytonirish]

MM might be involved in the tam rankings. We all know how he loves to kiss Peteys rear end.

[Flyin_Irish]

I wouldn't expect Florida to stay on the outside the top 10 for long. And what is up with Miami? What is the appeal there?

[Fishin'_Irish]

I wouldn't expect Florida to stay on the outside the top 10 for long. And what is up with Miami? What is the appeal there?

The lifestyle you'll lead going there.

[notredomer23]

they do it by how many are in the 150. pathetic. Its Quality not quanity Espn.

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 12/17/07


To reflect Big Trev's verbal commit to ND, Omar Hunter picking up his 5th star on Scout, and Brandon Newman losing his 4th star on Scout.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Sixteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.91

Scout- Five 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Nineteen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.14

[mcnallyk]

ND has a great 2008 recruiting class. I don't put to much into who is #1, #2, or #8 in a mythical recruiting NC. I also don't think that their is a big difference between most 4 and 5 star players. Bottom line is that ND has a great recruiting class that brings in quality athletes to all positions of need. This class will improve ND's on-the-field performance in the next two years. While I am happy with the class, I wouldn't mind seeing one more WR, one more OL, and one more DE.

[IrishR#1]

---If you get more 5* than 3* so, basically it's not going to happen.

It sounded crazy that long ago, but according to Scout, if ND gets GRob, it's going to happen. Crazy.

[goirish41]

It sounded crazy that long ago, but according to Scout, if ND gets GRob, it's going to happen. Crazy.

GRob is a 4*.

[IrishKnight1023]

I like how Rivals has their special rating for each player. Not just a 3, 4 ,or 5 star but a 5.5 or a 6.0.

[irishunclebill]

I like how Rivals has their special rating for each player. Not just a 3, 4 ,or 5 star but a 5.5 or a 6.0.

That is to distinguish the various levels within each star ranking, so that you have high 4 stars, low 4 stars etc.

[IrishKnight1023]

That is to distinguish the various levels within each star ranking, so that you have high 4 stars, low 4 stars etc.

----Yeah I knew that I was saying how I think it gives you better idea of where the player is at.

[eric_navy]

Don't know when this happened, but Robert Blanton is now a 3 star on Rivals, so our average dropped from 3.91 to 3.86.

I was pretty psyched about finishing better than 3.9, which has only been done 6 times since 2002 (Tennessee and Fla State in 2002, USC every year since 2004). That will be pretty much impossible now, and USC will probably be the only one again and may break 4.0 for the 3rd time.

Wasn't Blanton in the Rivals100 earlier this year? One of our guys was #100 this summer and I though it might have been Robert. Maybe it was Clelland.

[mcnallyk]

That's strange. I just looked as well and he is listed as a three star, but if you look at their safety's list he is #13 and still a four star. http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1833

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I'll take Blanton any day of the week.

[daytonirish]

Especially Saturday. :D

[eric_navy]

I just don't understand the loss of a star - it really doesn't make much sense. He was the #13 safety as of November 16. The #21 and everyone above him are 4*. Does that mean that they don't think he's one of the top 20 safety's now? This long after the end of his season?

I guess I just want to cry foul b/c I'm suspicious of Rivals and their methodology. I think they are setting the stage for Alabama to jump to #1.

[daytonirish]

These ratings, rankings and # given by rivals,scout, and espn are for the fans and people who pay them to see it. I can guarentee you that Charlie and the rest of the staff are not sitting at their computors right now getting upset over what rivals has ranked anyone of the commits, or prospects they are still going after.

[irishunclebill]

That's strange. I just looked as well and he is listed as a three star, but if you look at their safety's list he is #13 and still a four star. http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1833

They have updated each player individually and are in the process of publishing a new Rivals 250. The position rankings are not updated until after the new Rivals 250 is published. Blanton will probably drop to the 20's in the Safety rankings, but all of that is meaningless anyway as he will play CB in college. Rivals guys are probably pissed at him because his step dad gives out recruiting info. Nothing that Blanton did on the field this year would have downgraded him to a three star. In fact when Scout just published their new S300 earlier this week Blanton stayed a 4 star and jumped quite a bit in their rankings.

[irishunclebill]

FYI- just checked, latest S300 had Blanton moving up from #167 to #139.

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 12/24/07


To reflect Robert Blanton losing his 4th star in the latest Rivals rankings.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Fifteen 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.86

Scout- Five 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Nineteen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.14

[NDGirlzRock]

Updated as of 12/24/07


To reflect Robert Blanton losing his 4th star in the latest Rivals rankings.

Rivals- Two 5 stars , Fifteen 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.86

Scout- Five 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Nineteen 4 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.14

What a crock that is!!!!

[irishunclebill]

Updated as of 1/07/08


Rivals- Two 5 stars, Fifteen 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.86

Rivals 5 stars- Crist, Rudolph
Rivals 3 stars- Newman, Williams, Poz, Golic, Blanton
Everyone else is a 4 star on Rivals.

Scout- Five 5 stars , Twelve 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.00

Scout 5 stars- Walker, Floyd, Crist, Rudolph, and Johnson
Scout 3 stars- Newman, Williams, Poz, Golic, and Cave
Everyone else is a 4 star on Scout.

ESPN 150- Three 5 stars, Eighteen 4 stars, and One Three Star = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.09

ESPN equivalent 5 stars- Walker, Floyd, and Crist.
ESPN equivalent 3 stars- Blanton.
Everyone else is a 4 star equivalent on ESPN.

In addition to being a 3 star on Rivals now, Blanton has by far the lowest rating of any ND recruit in the ESPN database. Some scouts screwed up big time on RJ, or else this is just some anti-eman bias.;)

Notre Dame is ranked first in both the Rivals and Scout Team Rankings. The lead in Rivals is pretty slim. For about an hour on Saturday between the AJ Harmon announcement, (or whatever it is that you want to call that) :rolleyes: and the Deion Walker announcement, Georgia held the top spot. ND’s lead on Scout is pretty significant. ESPN’s team rankings are so subjective that they are not really worth discussing.

[NDChatt]

I thought Blanton was doing a great job this past week at the AA game? Why the drop in stars?

[Sureal]

How is Floyd still a 4 on rivals... I'm starting to get irritated by those guys...

[IrishKnight1023]

I didn't see any new rankings or whatever come out yet

[irishunclebill]

I thought Blanton was doing a great job this past week at the AA game? Why the drop in stars?

Rivals dropped Blanton to a 3 star on their pre-Xmas update. Why, who knows.

[daytonirish]

They haven't updated I don't think. These were the last set givin out awhile ago. If I'm wrong I'm sure IUB or someone else will correct me in a polite way. :D

[irishunclebill]

I didn't see any new rankings or whatever come out yet

None have yet, although Rivals usually does do an update the week after the All-Star games.

[irishunclebill]

How is Floyd still a 4 on rivals... I'm starting to get irritated by those guys...

Floyd has been gradually dropping on Rivals all winter long. Why? Again, who knows. Despite the great game he had on Saturday, he would have to take a huge leap to become a Rivals 5 star when they post their next update. However, this is the time of the year when Rivals/Scout/ESPN do a lot of ranking based on their marketing tie-ins, and since the AAA game that Floyd played in is now the Rivals game, it is possible that they might bump Floyd up that high to enhance the value of the game.

[Sureal]

That's horrific. These kids rankings are being determined by dollars. Sickening. Is this what sports (amatuer mainly) is evolving into? Or has it already evolved into it and I have been living in the 60's being naive to the times?

Sad.

[doogerfuji]

What does Cave's performance on Saturday tell us? It tells us to forget about Rivals, Scout and
all the rest and rely on the great football minds of CW and his staff. They knew Cave was the leading
center candidate in the country and he proved their confidence in him in spades.

[fighting doug]

ND has the best class, who cares what anybody thinks.

[NDIRISH44]

What does Cave's performance on Saturday tell us? It tells us to forget about Rivals, Scout and
all the rest and rely on the great football minds of CW and his staff. They knew Cave was the leading
center candidate in the country and he proved their confidence in him in spades.

i love Caveman. he's so committed to ND i can't wait for him to be in uniform. i can see him being a leader from day one.

[eric_navy]

This may not be directly related to ND recruits, but I thought it was interesting. I decided to go back and look at the supposed "Southern Bias" of Rivals again and am not really sure how to interpret what I got.

I compared the Rivals and Scout rankings of the top 50 schools. It initially looked like the southern schools were doing better by Rivals, but there are some counterexamples. Now it seems like the bigger "name" schools in a particular area do better by Rivals when compared with Scout. Also, the northeast and midwest do not do as well on Rivals in general.

Here are a few of the places with significant differences (more than about 25%).

School / Rivals rank / Scout rank

ND / 1 / 1 :D

Did better on Rivals:

Florida / 12 / 17
Auburn / 15 / 24
Minnesota / 21 / 32
OK State / 22 / 30
Maryland / 30 / 39
Kansas St. / 34 / 51
Mich. St. / 43 / 60
N Carolina / 46 / 65
Fresno St. / 49 / 68

Did better on Scout:

Illinois / 17 / 12 (swapped with Florida)

Washington / 27 / 10 :confused:

AZ St. / 31 / 19
Penn St. / 35 / 25
Rutgers / 38 / 28
Iowa / 51 / 40
Cincinatti / 74 / 46
Indiana / 72 / 49

[stew654]

Espn is out of their mind

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/insider/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3189984&campaign=rsssrch&source=notre+dame+football&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnca a%2frecruiting%2ffootball%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fst ory%3fcolumnist%3dluginbill_tom%26id%3d3189984%26c ampaign%3drsssrch%26source%3dnotre%2bdame%2bfootba ll

[irishunclebill]

Espn is out of their mind

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/insider/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3189984&campaign=rsssrch&source=notre+dame+football&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnca a%2frecruiting%2ffootball%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fst ory%3fcolumnist%3dluginbill_tom%26id%3d3189984%26c ampaign%3drsssrch%26source%3dnotre%2bdame%2bfootba ll

ESPN's Team Rankings are all subjective, they do not use quantitative data like Rivals or Scout. So even if you disagree with Rivals or Scout's ranking of players, at least their team rankings are based on the same formula. ESPN's team rankings are not even worth looking at.

[stew654]

I know, was just reminding everyone how far off they are :)

[SoCalDomer]

Espn is out of their mind


the sooner ESPN come's to that understanding, they can move on to step 2. but right now they're stuck in denial.

[irishunclebill]

the sooner ESPN come's to that understanding, they can move on to step 2. but right now they're stuck in denial.

and sometimes in daamazon as well.:D

[SoCalDomer]

and sometimes in daamazon as well.:D

ha ha. that's my kind of humor. folks, he'll be here all week with shows starting at 6pm. and don't forget to tip your waitress.

[irishziggy]

16 of our 22 commits are in the new Rivals top 250

Kyle Rudolph - 20
Dayne Crist - 25
Michael Floyd - 27
Ethan Johnson - 32
Trevor Robinson - 37
Jonas Gray - 72
Darius Fleming - 89
Steve Filer - 143
Sean Cwynar - 159
Deion Walker - 179
Jamoris Slaughter - 181
Lane Clelland - 182
Dan McCarthy - 183
Joseph Fauria - 184
Braxston Cave - 192
Anthony McDonald - 221

[stew654]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?columnist=tucker_billy&id=3199746&campaign=rsssrch&source=notre+dame+football

Signing day storylines: After an abysmal on-field performance this past fall, it is hard to fathom the stellar recruiting class third-year head coach Charlie Weis has put together in South Bend. Even as ND continued to lose, it seemed prospects continued to commit. Down the stretch the loss of ESPN's No. 2-rated defensive tackle Omar Hunter (Buford, Ga.), who could have been a disruptive four-year starter at nose in defensive coordinator Corwin Brown's 3-4 scheme, will hurt, but the pickups of elite receivers Michael Floyd (Saint Paul, Minn./Cretin-Derham) and Deion Walker (Christchurch, Va.) should have Irish fans smiling after watching an anemic offensive performance last fall.


ESPN 150 prospect Deion Walker is one of three receivers in Notre Dame's class.
From top to bottom, the quality in ND's current No. 3-rated recruiting class is impressive on and off the field. Most of the committed recruits we have spoken with during the last year stressed the education, winning tradition and future pride in bringing back a once-storied program to glory as the main factors in their decisions.

Weis does deserve a firm pat on the back for his persistence and recruiting touch this year since his three Super Bowl rings can only go so far in landing a heralded prospect. However, the real underlying story could be whether he can transform this talent, 22 pledges with 10 ESPN 150 members, into a winner.

Top prospect: Dayne Crist had an excellent career at Notre Dame High School in Canoga Park, Calif., and we feel his skills will quickly emerge at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. With great size and arm strength as a pocket passer, Crist could step in and challenge for reps as a true freshman. He can zip the ball into tight spots, drive it downfield and add touch when needed. He lacks some polish in his mechanics, but arm strength coming out of high school is ahead of the much heralded Jimmy Clausen's.

Class highlights: ND did a good job filling roster needs while also bringing in great overall value; the Irish have commitments from 12 prospects with a grade of 80 or better. Defensive end and outside linebacker needed bodies with Brown's newly implemented 3-4 defense and they were filled. ESPN 150 prospect Ethan Johnson (Portland, Ore./Lincoln) possesses an outstanding blend of size, strength and quickness coveted in the two-gap end position to defend the run. Darius Fleming (Chicago/Saint Rita) played end in high school, but his lateral quickness, pass-rushing skills and coverage experience project well at the 3-4 outside 'backer position; the same can be said for Anthony McDonald (Sherman Oaks, Calif./Notre Dame).

Shifting sides, center was a huge need for the Irish, and they landed a stud in our No. 1 OC Braxston Cave (Granger, Ind./Penn). A recent addition into the ESPN 150, Cave possesses rare polished tools at the position coming out of high school. Mike Golic Jr. (Avon, Conn./Northwest Catholic ), our No. 4-rated center, comes from good lineage but projects to be a quality player in his own right.

Weis also has to be pleased with the offensive firepower headed to South Bend to bolster one of nation's worst passing offenses. The aforementioned Crist could see reps, particularly if ND decides to shuffle quarterbacks again, and ESPN 150 wide receivers Floyd, Walker and tight end Kyle Rudolph (Cincinnati/Elder) all could see early playing time, giving the Irish some much needed playmaker skills on the perimeter.

Could see the field in 2008: Crist, Floyd, Walker (red-zone packages), Rudolph, Cave, Fleming and McDonald.

[thixon]

At least they are giving some credit here...especially putting Cave #1.

[Sureal]

Man we need to win some games. The line of "Can Charlie coach up potential?" is getting old. He will have an opportunity in the coming year and years to come to shut them up.

[IrishGrizz]

Man we need to win some games. The line of "Can Charlie coach up potential?" is getting old. He will have an opportunity in the coming year and years to come to shut them up.

Agree, Sureal. CW is quickly removing the one excuse he has had since he arrived- lack of quality depth.

[IrishKnight1023]

http://notredame.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=59295

call me crazy but that picture isn't of McDonald...

[notredomer23]

your right that isnt! and has anyone noticed how rivals safety rankings arent listed.

[irishunclebill]

They are working on them right now, that is why they are not showing.

BTW, Blanton now officially has his 4th star back.

[mcnallyk]

Did you See Luginbill's team rankings on ESPN. He now has ND as the #7 recruiting class (down from #3). I don't get how he can be so far off from Rivals and Scout. IMO, that just ridiculous. ND has an awesome group of recruits and that are filling most needs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3214300

[IrishR#1]

Did you See Luginbill's team rankings on ESPN. He now has ND as the #7 recruiting class (down from #3). I don't get how he can be so far off from Rivals and Scout. IMO, that just ridiculous. ND has an awesome group of recruits and that are filling most needs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3214300

Luginbill must be smoking something to pull out those rankings. Notre Dame has more recruits and more ESPN top 150 recruits than almost every team above them, but they are ranked lower? I don't know what he is thinking. That's the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.

[eric_navy]

No big surprise, ND is lower on ESPN (7) than on Rivals (2) or Scout (1). USC is higher on ESPN (8) than Rivals (12) or Scout (18).

Earlier in the year the emphasis was on who had the most players in the ESPN 150, hence the gushing over Miami all year until they lost that distinction. Now it seems to be more important who has the highest rated top player, with the exception of LSU and Texas. Clemson has ESPN's #1 player, so they are in the top five on ESPN and barely in the top fifteen on the other services.

[irishjay]

keep in mind this is the same guy who said jonas gray was looking at scUM. take his word, thoughts, and opinions with a grain of salt.

[IrishR#1]

And they still have Cyrus Gray as undecided. ESPN isn't a great recruiting source.

[RichardRiot]

And they still have Cyrus Gray as undecided. ESPN isn't a great recruiting source.

They are now going out on a limb and saying that the US team is looking good for a comeback at Brookline in the Ryder Cup.

As you said, they are perenially (at least) a day late, and about $1M Dollars short; look at their briefing room - they are almost always announcing a day or two after the rest of the world knows.

Oh, and by the way - Captain of the Titanic, watch for icebergs!!

Pretty sure that if Will the Thrill had decided to go to the A-A game instead of the UA game, he would be outside their top 20. Look where these guys have Kyle Rudolph (#4 TE??).

[stew654]

Hey ND is back on top over fla in the recruiting rankings!

[NDisNCin2010]

Hey ND is back on top over fla in the recruiting rankings!

whuh happened?

[NDGirlzRock]

whuh happened?

They got wind of Urban Liar's pending investigations!!! :D:D:D

[ab2cmiller]

Maybe they were including the gymnast in the team rankings .... she was at least a 4 star from what I hear.

[BDirish4ever]

Maybe they were including the gymnast in the team rankings .... she was at least a 4 star from what I hear.

Maybe OH changed his mind again and decided the Gators don't play his style of defense!:rolleyes:

[SoCalDomer]

they lost one recruit. they had 22 when they were #1, now down to 21.

[IrishKnight1023]

they lost one recruit. they had 22 when they were #1, now down to 21.

------Who'd they lose? A smart kid.....

[irishziggy]

Chaz Sutton i think

[SoCalDomer]

that i don't know. i never followed their list close enough to determine who they had. it wasn't Omar Hunter.

[irishziggy]

it might put Keith Wells on their radar

[The New Louis]

I really hate urban can someone just mail him a bag feces?

[eric_navy]

I was just checking out their (florida's) list and Will Hill is the #1 athlete. Under category rankings, he is #2 among all athletes for most athletic. Hilarious.

These rankings brought to you by the department of redundancy department.

[mcnallyk]

Looks like Luginbill admits error and has ND back at #3.

"Editor's note/correction: After more research, we have found no substantiated evidence that Jonas Gray (Pontiac, Mich./Detroit Country Day) is looking to switch his commitment to Michigan. It was a journalistic error to report that "whispers were that one-time Nebraska commit Gray may change his mind" and regret the misinformation. The latest: Could push even higher with a few last-minute additions."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?columnist=luginbill_tom&id=3207424

[daytonirish]

mcnallyk. The thread you provided above is dated 1/23/08. The thread you provided that has the Irish #7 is dated 1/25/08. So I'm guessing he still has the Irish at #7 right now.

[RichardRiot]

Apparently Chaz Sutton did not qualify academically.

Multiple choice question.....

What actually constitutes did not meeting Urban's academic qualifications?

1)Willie Green is a better prospect than you!
2)Coloring outside the lines!
3)I told you: this offer will self-destruct when I don't need you anymore!
4)When I said you would start as a Freshman, I never said that it would be for Florida!


Last one stolen from our favorite GH Kicker....LOL

[mcnallyk]

Daytonirish, you are correct. I didn't catch that. Sorry for the later post. He has ND at #7.

[eric_navy]

Alabama now #1 on Scout with the addition of Alonzo Lawrence. That puts their total at 28 with at least 2 more prospects.

This doesn't make sense b/c only 2 of their guys (Chris Jackson and Cory Smith) are EE's. That means they currently have at least 26 players counted toward this year, when you are only allowed 25. Is there some other loophole in this process that I don't know about, or are the just going to pull some offers?

If Alabama pulls some committed kid's offer to make room for Julio Jones then Saban will officially claim the title of "Biggest D-bag in CFB," currently held by our friend in Gainesville.

[SoCalDomer]

no, no loophole. every year, every team in the SEC offers and accepts LOI from recruits that will not get admitted to the schools. thus, while the recruiting sites list 26, 28, or 32 recruits in the recruiting class, only 25 plus whatever number of early enrolees ever actually join the team. but the recruiting sites never go back and adjust the class ranks based on which players actually get admitted.

then, they will always lose 1-2 more the following year from eligibility or off the field issues.

this allows the SEC schools to have artificially high recruiting ranks every year. because they will always be able to accept 25 LOI each year.

this is true this year with Alabama, Florida and So Carolina. (probably more, but I personally checked the numbers on these three) if you added up the numbers of recruits they've had the last three years with this years' number, they would all have over 100 scholarship players, and we know that's not possible

[RichardRiot]

Alabama now #1 on Scout with the addition of Alonzo Lawrence. That puts their total at 28 with at least 2 more prospects.

This doesn't make sense b/c only 2 of their guys (Chris Jackson and Cory Smith) are EE's. That means they currently have at least 26 players counted toward this year, when you are only allowed 25. Is there some other loophole in this process that I don't know about, or are the just going to pull some offers?

I was struggling with that as well. If you look at Scout's Eligibility tracker (which for ND appears to be up-to-date for guys on schollies), 'Bama seems as if they will be well over 85 guys total......especially if they add 30 this year. Now I know little more than jack about the 'Bama roster, so maybe some of the guys listed are gone.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=16&nid=745&yr=2007

There should be no loophole.....25 initial counters and 85 guys total; both of these seem to be greatly surpassed.

[SoCalDomer]

Now I know little more than jack about the 'Bama roster, so maybe some of the guys listed are gone.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=16&nid=745&yr=2007


i don't know if those eligibility spreadsheets are up to date to reflect transfers, recruits who did not get admitted, or players who left for other reasons.

also, it is an eligibility tracker, not an actual roster tracker. if you look at ND's list, it lists players who have 5th year eligibility for 2008. but we know only 3 are actually returning. so if you add up the 73 on scout's list plus the 22 we have coming in, we would be at 95. but we know that's not accurate.

[eric_navy]

I think the big issue is what SoCal noted first, about kids who sign and then don't qualify for one reason or another. EE's count toward the previous class, so they're okay, but Tennessee signed 32 commits last year. Auburn signed 30 after signing 25 the year before and they couldn't have that many EE's.

I recall seeing something this summer that at least 10 Auburn commits failed to enroll this year. Perhaps something that would help with this a little would be to count the number of kids that sign LOI's rather than the number who actually enroll, because I see too much opportunity for kids to get screwed on this.

Say some school signs 30 kids for only 25 spots expecting 5 not to be eligible, and then 27 end up okay. They are going to have to refuse a couple even after accepting their LOI and have them go to junior college or something for a year, although I'm sure there are specific rules about turning kids away after they sign an LOI. Somehow, it just strikes me as unethical to do business this way. I guess I'm to much of an idealist.

If only 25 LOI's were allowed each year this would not be a problem, although the argument could probably go the other way as well. That is, there would be more incentive to cheat in other ways to make sure certain kids are eligible, etc., while the kids who get offers pulled to make room for better players are probably not going to be pro caliber anyway, and need to focus on education instead of football.

[RichardRiot]

i don't know if those eligibility spreadsheets are up to date to reflect transfers, recruits who did not get admitted, or players who left for other reasons.

also, it is an eligibility tracker, not an actual roster tracker. if you look at ND's list, it lists players who have 5th year eligibility for 2008. but we know only 3 are actually returning. so if you add up the 73 on scout's list plus the 22 we have coming in, we would be at 95. but we know that's not accurate.

Actually, as indicated, for ND it is pretty close to being up-to-date (where are Reuland, Carufel, 2D, Zach Frazier???? well you get the picture). Webb is still on there, but that was a pretty recent event. The only guys missing from this were the walk-ons that were given 1-yr scholarships.

Ummm, I recognize that you can't add ND's current 73 + the 22 commits....pretty obvious that you cannot include the 9 (2007's) nor the 4 (2008's not coming back for a 5th year). However, when you back away the 13 + Webb, you're left with 69 + 22 2008 commits + potentially a couple of others which may still commit - pushing ND up against the 85 scholarship limit. This is consistent with what has been posted previously on ND's scholarship situation.

Now, looking at 'Bama....they have 116 guys listed, with 20 (2007 grads) and max 22 (if all 2008 grads drop off). That would drop them to 74 guys, before adding potentially 30 2008 commits. That doesn't include any walk-ons.

You're right SoCal, maybe Scout's tracker isn't that accurate for 'Bama, which was my point - because clearly they can't be over 85 total (I had already stated that I'm not familiar with 'Bama's scholarship roster so I don't know who shouldn't be on the eligibility list).

However, that is a lot of guys (about 20) that would have had to be dropped from the 'Bama list. Who knows, maybe Scout only keeps ND's list updated???

[GoldenShower]

Great article about "where are they now" analysing the Scout's 2004 5-star prospects. I do think this is a good reference to those who claim "recruiting doesn't matter" or point out the examples of players highly recruited who didn't pan out. For every Willie Williams at Miami there were a much higher percentage of 4 & 5-star players who turned into legit CFB starters if not NFL superstars. Just from this list (their top 30) you have: Adrian Peterson, Teddy Ginn, Dan Connor, Early Doucet, Fred Davis, Keith Rivers, Calvin Johnson, Derrick Harvey, Glenn Dorsey, Zach Miller, and Chad Henne.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/726341.html
Here's to hoping that in 2012 we'll be referencing Floyd, Crist, Randolph, E. Johnson, etc in this same group.

[IrishKnight1023]

From Scouts rankings it looks like a 50/50 chance they're as advertised.

[SoCalDomer]

Alabama jumped over us on Rivals to land in the #2 spot with 29 recruits. it looks like they picked up 2 more sometime today, because i thought they were at 27 yesterday.

Scout lists them with 28, and #1

[Rockne's Revenge]

Can anyone explain the ESPN team recruiting rankings to me??? ND has more top 150 recruits and more overall recruits than some of the team ranked ahead of them, yet they have ND dropping from #3 to #7 in their rankings. I think this is just another example of ESPN's obvious bias against the Irish. I just came from their website and it is listed on their homepage. I don't understand it.

[NothinglikeND]

Let me explain it as I understand, Its the right hand rule - the english call it Wankaaa.

[stew654]

Espn hates the baby jesus plain and simple ask whats her horse face

[irishunclebill]

Can anyone explain the ESPN team recruiting rankings to me??? ND has more top 150 recruits and more overall recruits than some of the team ranked ahead of them, yet they have ND dropping from #3 to #7 in their rankings. I think this is just another example of ESPN's obvious bias against the Irish. I just came from their website and it is listed on their homepage. I don't understand it.

It's really rather simple. Scout and Rivals rankings of individual players is subjective, but their accumulation of Team Rankings is 95% based on a mathematical formula. For ESPN both the individual and Team Rankings are subjective.

[irishunclebill]

2008 Final Numbers


Rivals- Three 5 stars, Sixteen 4 stars, and Four 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.96

Rivals 5 stars- Crist, Floyd, Rudolph
Rivals 3 stars- Williams, Poz, Golic, Goodman
Everyone else is a 4 star on Rivals.

Scout- Four 5 stars , Fourteen 4 stars, and Five 3 stars = Avg. Star Ranking of 3.96

Scout 5 stars- Floyd, Crist, Rudolph, and Johnson
Scout 3 stars- Clelland, Williams, Poz, Golic, and Lewis-Moore
Everyone else is a 4 star on Scout.

ESPN 150- Two 5 stars, Twenty 4 stars, and One Three Star = Avg. Star Ranking of 4.04

ESPN equivalent 5 stars- Floyd, and Crist.
ESPN equivalent 3 stars- Blanton.
Everyone else is a 4 star equivalent on ESPN.

[IrishFan123]

S.I. Re-ranked the recruiting class of 2008.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/02/08/2008-recruiting-classes/index.html?eref=sihp

[wicket]

you mean that the class that provides about half (if not more) of next years starters and will have a ton of first 3 round draft picks gets kicked out of the top 10 alltogether??

[IrishinTN]

yes. Once again ESPN proves why we shouldn't bother reading their NCAA articles.

[mcbri014]

probably because of the W-L record