'08 PA WR Jonathan Baldwin (Pitt LOI)

[Svoboda]

Wide Receiver
Aliquippa (Aliquippa, PA)

Ht: 6-foot-6
Wt: 225 lbs
Forty: 4.4 secs
GPA: 3.35
Links of Interest: Rivals Profile (http://notredame.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=45293)

Combine
Bench Reps:
Bench Max:
Squat Max:
Shuttle:
Vertical:

Star Ratings
Rivals.com: ****
Scout.com: ****

Rankings & Accolades
Rivals 100 #28 Rivals #2 National TE Rivals PA Top 40- #4
Scout 100 #76 Scout #13 National WR

Statistics
2006
Receiving: 21 Receptions 470 Yds, 5 TD
Defense: 23 Tackles 2 Sacks 1 Interception

Schools of Interest:
Michigan
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Florida
Miami
USC

[Svoboda]

Jonathan Baldwin

[irishunclebill]

While recruiting may be starting to look bleak on the Brice Butler front for ND, it is definitely improving on the Jonathan Baldwin front. About a month ago a Pittsburgh newspaper blog reported that Pitt & ND, not the skunkbears, were Baldwin's Top 2 schools. This report was met with a lot of skepticism, but it appears now that there may be some significant merit to it.

It has been rumored that Baldwin has an advisor who is strongly pushing Notre Dame. Then yesterday, GBW posted a story that sent the already harried skunkbear fans who are still recovering from the Omar Hunter setback into another frenzy, as GBW apparently confirmed that ND may actually be in the lead in the recruitement of Baldwin. This story has some additional significance because GBW is notorious for saying that scUM leads for just about any recruit that they have offered.

Baldwin's measurables, if correct, have as much upside as any WR in the class of 2008. He is a High School TE who wants to play WR in college, and is partly attracted to Notre Dame because he knows that he will have a shot at significant playing time as a WR almost immediately, and also will not have to worry about being forced to play TE because of ND's depth at that position.

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin's final list of 6 schools are Florida, Miami, Michigan, Notre Dame, Pitt and Southern California. However, the general consensus is that Baldwin will end up at either ND, Pitt, or Michigan.

Baldwin is also an excellent High School basketball player, and was offered a schollie by Marquette to play basketball in college. However, he has recently dropped off of his AAU basketball team to concentrate on football for the Fall, and has advised Marquette that he will be playing football in college.

[untitledproject]

GBW posted a story that sent the already harried skunkbear fans who are still recovering from the Omar Hunter setback into another frenzy, as GBW apparently confirmed that ND may actually be in the lead in the recruitement of Baldwin.


:)

[irishunclebill]

More good news for ND & bad for scUM, again from a Michigan blogger.

Michigan behind Notre Dame for Baldwin (http://jimstefani.blogspot.com/2007/06/post-camp-u-m-football-recruiting.html)


I’ve heard from three separate sources that Michigan has fallen behind Notre Dame in the Jonathan Baldwin sweepstakes. This is the first bit or REAL bad news in the recruiting front this year. The other prospects Notre Dame has beaten U-M out for this year are all solid kids, but none are the difference-maker type of prospects that Baldwin is. Wolverine fans won’t be able to spin this one away should Baldwin go Irish.

This guy basically acknowledges that it is "spin" about scUm losing Clelland, Hunter, and Blanton to ND. Baldwin would be an even bigger disaster for Michigan than Hunter if he ends up Irish.

[untitledproject]

Oddly, this sounds eeriely similar to how we are with USC.

[irishunclebill]

Profile Update & Picture Added.

[Svoboda]

Baldwin intrigues me. I really wish I could see a nice chunk of film on the kid to make a solid decision on whether I want him over someone like Floyd, etc.

[JP_Irish]

I live very close to the Jeannette area and have seen both Balwin and Pryor play football and hoops. These two battled it out on the court this year in the WPIAL and both are tremendous athletes. There is no question in my mind that Baldwin would be a huge get for the Irish and the competition he plays against is pretty good.

In my area both Jeannette High School, and Aliquippa are AA schools. The bigger schoos are AAAA, but both of these guys would still dominate at the AAAA level. They are for real.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Tall, fast, and smart (and we stick it to the others??), luv to see him here alongside of Goodman. We could make due with 3 WR IF Floyd came.

[iloveirish_12]

The only thing that would worry you is I don't think he loves football enough. I have heard many times he reather play basketball. So I don't know if he would last all four years.

[JP_Irish]

He quit his AAU team to focus on football I heard.

[irishunclebill]

The only thing that would worry you is I don't think he loves football enough. I have heard many times he reather play basketball. So I don't know if he would last all four years.


See Post #4 on the first page of this thread. Baldwin's entire focus is now on Football, he does not want to play basketball in college.

[weis19]

baldwin is a true stud wr he would be a great addition to this class.

[KamaraPolice]

Just by coincidence, I was checking out Calvin Johnsons high school Rivals profile and then went to Baldwins shortly after. I was astounded by the similarities. More recently, I have read from people who have seen both play that Baldwin is Calvinesque.

By the way, he wants to focus on football because he believes that is where his best opportunity lies. Have no doubt about it, once he comes to notre dame, he will be focused and determined to make it to the NFL in 3 years.

You would have to believe one or two of these top receivers will sign Irish.

[IrishKnight1023]

Just by coincidence, I was checking out Calvin Johnsons high school Rivals profile and then went to Baldwins shortly after. I was astounded by the similarities. More recently, I have read from people who have seen both play that Baldwin is Calvinesque.

By the way, he wants to focus on football because he believes that is where his best opportunity lies. Have no doubt about it, once he comes to notre dame, he will be focused and determined to make it to the NFL in 3 years.

You would have to believe one or two of these top receivers will sign Irish.

---He plays TE in HS right? I think if he wants to play WR in college then he should move there his Sr. year.

[iloveirish_12]

---He plays TE in HS right? I think if he wants to play WR in college then he should move there his Sr. year.

Yeah but you have to do whats best for the team. Not just one kid, even if the kid is the best on your team and he is going to go on and play CFB.

[scooper]

Yeah but you have to do whats best for the team. Not just one kid, even if the kid is the best on your team and he is going to go on and play CFB.

Exactly. He plays TE because that's where his skills best help his team. Speaking of his skills, dude blows people up blocking. I want this kid. Him, Floyd and Goodman would re-stock the roster with the big WR's that we just saw having success in this offense. And these guys, by most accounts, are probably faster than Stovall and Samardzija. If you can get a guy that they compare to Calvin Johnson, you take him.

Go after the shifty little bugs next year.

[IrishCalves]

Worst case scenario, we get a guy who is little more than a redzone nightmare. Whether its at TE, WR, or even if he isn't a starter, whenever we're inside the 20 we can trot him out and count on somebody getting 6, whether he snags it or serves as an excellent decoy.

We've already got some jump ball guys/ "Redzone Redwoods" in Kamara, Fauria and Rudolph most recently. Not sure how much of a jumper Goodman is, but being 6'4" won't hurt in the redzone either. Add Baldwin into the mix and... well, you simply can't defend everyone. It'd be like having Brady & Stovall & Fasano & Samardzija part deux.

I think he's probably the #3 receiver on our board, behind Butler and Floyd. Floyd for many reasons we can all see (pipeline, early offer, we're the leader, etc), and Butler because of how college ready he is from a coaching standpoint. However, Baldwin does have the much higher ceiling with his physical attributes, so I'd be ecstatic with either Butler or Baldwin.

Something else to keep in mind: I wouldn't invest too much sentiment or time into whether we lead or are in 3rd place right now. I know most of us are just trying to get it right, or to see whether or not our pitch is working with him. That in mind, he's got NSD/AAA written all over his recruitment, baring an official visit that "blew him away". Lots can change with those visits so take everything going on now FWIW.

[JP_Irish]

Here is a little tidbit about Baldwin:

Quips win relay


The Aliquippa boys' 400 relay team won the Class AA title with a time of 42.80 seconds. The team was made up of Rashad Kenney, Jonathan Baldwin, Antonio Reddic and Terrence Banks.

The previous time Baldwin and Reddic were involved in a PIAA championship event, they weren't as happy. In March, Baldwin and Reddic were starters on Aliquippa's basketball team, which blew a big lead late in the game and lost to Philadelphia Prep Charter in the PIAA Class AA title game.

"Someone from one of the relay teams actually said something to us about it before the race," Reddic said. "They said something like, 'I hope you show some better sportsmanship when you lose again.' "

Baldwin also finished third in the 100-meter dash in 11.03 seconds. At 6 feet 6, 220 pounds, Baldwin has to be one of the biggest athletes to win a bronze medal in the 100.

"It's just an honor to be third," said Baldwin, a junior who has numerous Division I college scholarship offers for football. "I never expected this. I was just going to run on the relay team this year."

Baldwin didn't run track last year.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07147/789457-364.stm

[irishunclebill]

Is there anything this guy can't do. He is to 2008 ND recruiting what Stony is to the Notre Dame message boards.:D

[stonebreakerwasgod]

You mean acamp, he changed a post on IE. I guess now I'm smitten with HCTI.

[Jiggafini19]

Hold a spot for him no matter what. Too good of an athlete.

[irishunclebill]

Irish Eyes headline blurb (see link) has the Irish among Baldwin's favorites, but how many favorites are there.

Baldwin Has The Irish Among His Favorites. (http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=2&c=659259&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fnotredame.scout.com%2fa. z%3fs%3d109%26p%3d2%26c%3d659259)

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin's 6 favorites are, in no particular order, Florida, Miami, Pitt, Notre Dame, Michigan and USC. He is planning on taking all 5 of his Official Visits in the Fall, ND will almost certainly be one of them. Throughout his recruiting Baldwin has stressed early PT and academics as his primary focus in deciding where he wants to end up. Because of this consistency, you would have to think that this will come down to another battle between ND & scUM, but anytime the Poodle & the Cockwad are in the mix, there is always cause for concern. One item that may continue to help the Irish in this regard is that Baldwin is supposed to have an advisor who is very heavily pro-ND. This is one that will probably go down to the wire, but if ND wins out in the end, it will definitely be worth the wait.

[notredomer23]

I heard he made a top 3

[daytonirish]

Did we make his top three from what you heard notredomer23 ?

[IrishCalves]

The lead horses look to be ND, UM, and Pitt, so I'd assume so. But nothing is set in stone.

[irishunclebill]

Is it possible that for once somebody is using a USC offer to posture with instead of an ND offer. These are strange recruiting times indeed.

Baldwin has planned his 5 Official Visits to include all of the schools in his Top 6, (Florida, Miami, Pitt, Notre Dame, Michigan and USC) except USC. Interesting. Also, it may be a safe bet that Pitt, ND, and scUM are Baldwin's current Top 3, but he is definitely planning on waiting until NSD to decide. I don't care what your primary motivation may be, any 17/18 year old kid from the Pittsburgh area is going to be impressed by visits to Florida & Miami in November. Also as far as PT goes, remember that even though Florida had a massive haul in their 2007 class, the only true stud WR they picked up was Deonte Thompson. Miami as well has not been hauling in big time WR's as of late. Neither team has recruited a 4 star WR thus far in 2008.

So, even though it appears that the Poodle may be mere window dressing here, don't count out Shannon or the Cockwad on Baldwin. As long as they are recruiting him as a WR, they also have a good chance to be in the mix at the end with Pitt, scUM, and ND.

[irishunclebill]

On the same day that one recruiting site said Baldwin had a Top 6, and would be making an Official to everyone in the Top 6 except USC, another recruiting site is saying that Baldwin has a Top 5, which includes USC, and that he will be making an Official Visit to all 5 schools, ND, Pitt, Michigan, USC, and Miami. According to the other recruiting site, Florida is the team that is dropped out of the 6 we had heard before. However, I should mention that the recruiting site that does not have Florida as one of Baldwin's favorites is also in the state of Florida. Oh, and BTW, Baldwin is visiting Miami this weekend.;)

I have a feeling that there might be a little gamesmanship going on with this second article from a Florida school, and that Cockwad U. is still among the schools that Baldwin is considering.

[GhostSpirit]

He's visiting Miami this weekend but I think it's more about visiting family down there.

[IrishKnight1023]

http://notredame.rivals.com/

Baldwin in no hurry:

by Steve Hare

While many of the nation’s top players have opted to make early college decisions or plan to do so before the start of their junior seasons, don’t count Jonathan Baldwin in that category. The 6-foot-6, 225-pound wide receiver from Aliquippa, Pa., plans to take his time and his official visits before making his college choice some time during his senior season.


Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Michigan, USC, Florida and Miami are his Top 6.

[irishunclebill]

The best part of this story is that all of it is old news, but the II bunny is acting like it's a sudden change for Baldwin. This info has been published repeatedly in various forums, including Rivals, since the beginning of July.

[NDisNCin2010]

as long as we get Floyd in this class i really have no preference on these other recievers (Harper, Baldwin, Walker, etc) ...those guys and Baldwin "are gravy" as long we got Floyd, and i would prefer Baldwin wait till LOI day anyway for a little drama on the ND recruiting landscape...little suspense.

[NDGirlzRock]

as long as we get Floyd in this class i really have no preference on these other recievers (Harper, Baldwin, Walker, etc) ...those guys and Baldwin "are gravy" as long we got Floyd, and i would prefer Baldwin wait till LOI day anyway for a little drama on the ND recruiting landscape...little suspense.

What are you trying to do give us all ulcers? Hell no I say commit early so we can concentrate on the season and openin' some whopa** on scUM and USCless!

[JMR07]

I Would Love To See Baldwin In Blue And Gold! Imo He Would Be A Faster Maurice Stovall. You Can't Go Wrong There. And I Hear Stovall Is Getting Pretty Good For The Bucs And Is A Legit Contender For The # 2 Receiver.

[irishunclebill]

I Would Love To See Baldwin In Blue And Gold! Imo He Would Be A Faster Maurice Stovall. You Can't Go Wrong There. And I Hear Stovall Is Getting Pretty Good For The Bucs And Is A Legit Contender For The # 2 Receiver.

LOL- How Do You Do That? You Are Not Really Hitting The Cap Key When You Begin Every Word Like I Am Right Now, Are You?

[scooper]

Somebody did that mistakingly on IE once, I don't remember what the issue was.

[Fishin'_Irish]

Just Press Caps Lock And It Does It Too!

[scooper]

I Have Nothing To Say Here. Just Testing It Out.

[NDisNCin2010]

scoop...what movie the baboon avatar?
isle of dr moreau? american werewolf london? Rudy?

[rontdtarchala]

looks kinda like my ex mother in law.......on a good day

[Ricochet]

The best part of this story is that all of it is old news, but the II bunny is acting like it's a sudden change for Baldwin. This info has been published repeatedly in various forums, including Rivals, since the beginning of July.Rivals/II knew this wasn't new info it's been talked to death on there board but they need so many article in a weeks time and there just isn't much new news so they printed up this article.

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin is reported to be planning on cutting his list doen to 3 schools early in the Fall. scUM obviously believes they will be one of the three, and they are most likely correct. Earlier reports have indicated that the other 2 should be Pitt & ND, so if this new report on Baldwin's timing is correct we should know before October 1 whether ND is really in the hunt for Baldwin

[Irish93]

Q&A with Baldwin

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07225/809086-365.stm

[notredomer23]

good stuff 93

[NDisNCin2010]

great find...
maybe he can play football, hoops, run track AND play GOLF at ND with those 300+yard drives.

[IrishKnight1023]

Baldwin may be visiting for this weekends game.

http://www.domerdomain.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12921&sid=f5634202c72bce40687b441a817cad61

One of those 19 commits, safety Jamoris Slaughter (Stone Mountain, Ga.) does have plans to attend the game. Uncommitted tight end Jonathan Baldwin is expected to visit unofficially. Baldwin, a 6-6, 225-pounder from Aliquippa, Pa., reportedly runs the 40-yard dash in 4.4 seconds. A possible official visitor could be running back Carlton Thomas, a 5-6, 159-pounder from Frostproof, Fla.

[IrishKnight1023]

Baldwin has said that alot of his decision will be based on whoever shows him the most attention and interest just like Carlton Thomas (who we lead for because of showing him the most love.) Every major recruit that ND has wanted has stated that we were recruiting them the hardest and if that is a major factor in the school they chose then we are sitting pretty with Baldwin and CT. Especially with next to no prospects left on our board.

[NDgrandson]

Was Baldwin here for that crap? I want Baldwin on campus in January. Our midget WRs might be tough and they might be fast, but there were two big plays they would have made if they were 6'1". You saw Parris do well and Kamara play catch with JC. PT could come quick to these recruits. It does help if the ball is thrown to them though.

Goodman / Floyd / Baldwin - please

[marv81s]

i would think baldwin would know better than to judge his who decision on one single performance. JC and Crist aren't spread option QBs and Weis seemed to be forcing the spread on his team, but it seemed like that thinking went out the window at the end of the first half. Baldwin couldn't have been too impressed with his other favorite Michigan's performance either.

But I also hope that Floyd and Baldwin didn't put too much stock in most of this performance today and they realized that we need some tall, athletic WRs, we have one great QB here with another one on the way, so they need WRs to throw too.

[KamaraPolice]

Yeah, I bet the skunkbears impressed the hell out of Baldwin yesterday too.

[IRISH52]

Baldwin and Notre Dame are made for each other.....our recruiters need to go all out to convince him of that. Keeping my fingers crossed on this one!

[irishunclebill]

I have not seen anything confirming or denying that Baldwin was in South Bend on Saturday, but my guess is he was not. As far as I know only the SBT mentioned anything about the possibility of him being there.

Anyway his high school team which was the #2 ranked Class AA team in the WPIAL was the victim of a big upset on Friday night as they lost 36-26 to a team they had beaten 12 consecutive times. Alquippa fell behind by 30 points early in the game due to turnovers and had to stage a furious rally to even get back into the game. The good part of that was it allowed Baldwin to showcase his talents more than would be normal in the Alquippa offense and Jonathan ended up with 9 receptions for 140 yards.

[JMR8]

9 for 140. I wouldn't mind havin that at ND.

[medvnd]

I saw a guy sitting in the recruits section on Saturday who looked a lot like Baldwin, but I'm not positive it was him. I assumed it was during the game, but no news on this front has made me uncertain.

[NDisNCin2010]

this reporter in the video is saying that its essentially between Pitt and ND for Baldwin and that "the word on the street is that Baldwin is now a heavy Pitt lean"...UGH
hopefully wishful thinking by a Western PA guy (the reporter)...judge for yourself

http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=2&c=684888

[Akron Irish]

this reporter in the video is saying that its essentially between Pitt and ND for Baldwin and that "the word on the street is that Baldwin is now a heavy Pitt lean"...UGH
hopefully wishful thinking by a Western PA guy (the reporter)...judge for yourself

http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=2&c=684888

If this guy goes to Pitt, I'll kick my own @$$

[NDgrandson]

I don't put much stock into "Most local folks think he's heading to Pittsburgh." Local folks?

If we lose head to head for Baldwin to Pitt, I will be pissed. If we were one of 4 teams and miss out, OK, but I hate to think Pitt alone beat us out for him. I have made it well known that Baldwin is a big wish to commit to ND. I love tall WRs. His measurables are awesome.

[marv81s]

its home town University, so its always a battle to get a recruit away from a kids home state or town.

It wouldn't shock me if he picked Pitt

Long way to go on Baldwin.

With these kids leaving and having a little more room I would love to see some new offers get sent out to some OL and a couple more WRs, and one or two of these three would be nice

IL WR Brandon Green
VA WR Morgan Carter
or
MD S/WR Kenny Tate

First two that verbal, welcome to ND

[NDgrandson]

its home town University, so its always a battle to get a recruit away from a kids home state or town.

It wouldn't shock me if he picked Pitt

Long way to go on Baldwin.

With these kids leaving and having a little more room I would love to see some new offers get sent out to some OL and a couple more WRs, and one or two of these three would be nice

IL WR Brandon Green
VA WR Morgan Carter
or
MD S/WR Kenny Tate

First two that verbal, welcome to ND

Tate for sure. We have not recruited DeMatha too well over the years. My boss' son plays there and she talks to Kenny's mom quite a bit. Notre Dame never comes up.

With Baldwin... yeah Pitt's local, but go the route of D.Walls. We need WRs and tall ones at that. Come to ND, catch a lot of passes, score a lot of TDs, win a lot of games, go to the NFL. What do ya say big fella?

[GoshenGipper]

Tate for sure. We have not recruited DeMatha too well over the years. My boss' son plays there and she talks to Kenny's mom quite a bit. Notre Dame never comes up.

With Baldwin... yeah Pitt's local, but go the route of D.Walls. We need WRs and tall ones at that. Come to ND, catch a lot of passes, score a lot of TDs, win a lot of games, go to the NFL. What do ya say big fella?

Unfortuantly there's not too much of that going on at ND right now, and the recruits can see that by themselves and if they couldn't every other school in the race would point it out to them anyway.

[Flyin_Irish]

Pitt's not exactly setting the world on fire either. They are also breaking in a new QB who is not as talented as Jimmy and Wanny is considered to be on a hot seat right now.

[irishunclebill]

On the surface if it really is ND & Pitt as the Final 2, and it appears that it might be, you would have to think that ND would have the edge here despite the 0-5 record and despite Pitt having the HSU advantage, That is primarily because Wannstedt may be the worst head coach in all of Football, although Norv Turner loves to give him comp for that title. Pitt was crushed by a UVA team over the weekend that lost its' first game of the season to Wyoming by 20 points, although they also beat GT. They also lost to UConn by 20 points at home the week before. If Pitt does not beat Navy this week, they will most likely end up the season 2-10, which hopefully will not be better than the Irish.

However, lost in all of the Pitt/ND talk is that besides Pitt having the HSU advantage, Baldwin's father Jeff also played for Pitt as well as for Alquippa HS. Sometimes that means nothing at all, but other times it means a lot, especially when there are roots to the area that extend to the parent as well on the High School level. Baldwin gives off the aura that it does mean something to him, and that aura may also be the primary reason why he has a serious interest in a school like ND. In the end, I'm afraid the HSU loyalty will win out, and despite Pitt's own serious problems, I'm not sure that ND is really even close to 50/50 on this one.

[daytonirish]

Well lets just hope that Baldwin will see the larger picture and choose N.D. I'll agree that HSU will always be a big hurdle for N.D. to overcome. But I think with the way this staff recruits there is a good chance he comes to SB.

[The Jester]

I think there may be a big misconception that people are having with Baldwin. I've read on several boards that Baldwin couldn't be the "silent" that Gerrell/Trevor Robinson allegedly referred to because he is not committing on signing day. Just because Baldwin is not announcing his commitment until signing day doesn't mean he couldn't make a decision beforehand, or that he hasn't already for that matter. I highly doubt Baldwin will awake on signing day thinking, "Hmmm....I wonder what school I should go to.". I'm not saying I believe Baldwin is the silent commit, or that there even is a silent commit. All I'm saying is that recruits can decide where they are going before they announce it to the public, or commit silently, if you will.

[lionelhutz]

Other boards are reporting that Baldwin just cancelled his visit for the USC game this weekend. I'm trying to confirm this from solid source and find out why. Anyone else read this?

[irishunclebill]

Other boards are reporting that Baldwin just cancelled his visit for the USC game this weekend. I'm trying to confirm this from solid source and find out why. Anyone else read this?

So are we and it is already confirmed.

See Link:

http://www.goldhelmet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3198&page=4


Scroll down to post #38. It's senior weekend at Baldwin's High School. He still plans on taking an Official Visit to ND.

[GoshenGipper]

So are we and it is already confirmed.

See Link:

http://www.goldhelmet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3198&page=4


Scroll down to post #38. It's senior weekend at Baldwin's High School. He still plans on taking an Official Visit to ND.

I've heard the main reason he had to reschedule was because he was retaking the ACT, becuase his current score wasn't high enough for admission to ND.

[NDgrandson]

Aaaawwww man. Well, put the Baldwin saga on hold I guess. I know we fans tend to make a bigger deal of the recruits we have been working on longer and take for granted the guys we already have, but I really want Baldwin. I think he has upside higher than any other WR recruit in the country. He could be dominant. I believe I am on record here at Gh for being way high on him from the get go. It may be the pupa stage of a man crush. ;)

[irishunclebill]

I've heard the main reason he had to reschedule was because he was retaking the ACT, becuase his current score wasn't high enough for admission to ND.

GG- Whoever is spreading that one must have heard wrong because there is no ACT tests scheduled anywhere in the country this weekend.

[daytonirish]

Lets not start getting like the other sites and poting heresay on here about the recruots. We all know that the recruits and their families visit these sites and read what is being said about them.

[goirish41]

Now that Floyd is on board, I'd like to see ND get Baldwin (physical freak) ... and G. Robinson (tremendous athlete). That's right, four stud receivers in one class. Anyone think this is a possibility?

[Flyin_Irish]

I think OL is a bigger priority. I wouldn't mind seeing ONE of those 2 (preferably Baldwin).

[irishunclebill]

Now that Floyd is on board, I'd like to see ND get Baldwin (physical freak) ... and G. Robinson (tremendous athlete). That's right, four stud receivers in one class. Anyone think this is a possibility?

Just my opinion, but I don't see either Baldwin or Gerrell Robinson ending up at ND. I actually think we have a better shot at Robinson than Baldwin because of the direct ND connection, but I see the Irish as finishing #2 on both of these guys.

[goirish41]

IUB. Why do you say this on Baldwin? Is it the Pitt connection? Hometown U? Or something else?

[notredomer23]

Baldwin might not even get past admissions at ND, first of all. I heard his ACT was bad.

[goirish41]

Hadn't heard that about Baldwin's scores. I did hear that he was waiting for scores to see if he could pass admissions, but I guess I thought he hadn't received them yet. That sucks.

[Spiderman]

Where do you see Robinson ending up other than ND?

[futurendcoach]

Spiderman your a idiot

[irishunclebill]

IUB. Why do you say this on Baldwin? Is it the Pitt connection? Hometown U? Or something else?

Baldwin has a very strong parental connection to both Pitt and the Pittsburgh area, not only did his father play for Pitt, but he also played for the same High School that Jonathan plays for right now. Baldwin's ties to the Pittsburgh area run deeper than the ties that guys like Anthony McDonald and Brice Butler did not link to when they decided to attend different colleges than their fathers. I am not saying that ND does not have a shot here, I just think Pitt has a decided edge right now.

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin might not even get past admissions at ND, first of all. I heard his ACT was bad.

I thought that rumor was quashed last week when the same guy who started it said that Baldwin was not coming to visit ND for the USC game because he had to re-take his ACT last weekend. Only problem with that part of the rumor is that there were no ACT tests admininstered last weekend. I have seen no reliable source with concrete information that Baldwin has an academic issue. If you guys have seen such info please share the specifics instead of just spreading the rumor.

[KamaraPolice]

loose lips sink ships.

[MirageSmack]

So Pitt is in the driver seat regardless how their season is going? Don't forget, Wanny is on the hotseat.

[NDgrandson]

http://www.cstv.com/video/?s=videohub&vid=5393

Here is some lame info on Baldwin. Every opinion I have heard outside a ND message board has been from someone in Pittsburgh. I take it with a a grain of salt but would say that I believe Pitt is probably in front. Hopefully JB will get here for an official and we wow him into a verbal.

Also some Kenny Tate video in that link.

[irishdan123084]

when was the last time he visited ND and does he have an official in the next few weeks?

[untitledproject]

when was the last time he visited ND and does he have an official in the next few weeks?

Never.

[irishunclebill]

Never.

Not true. Baldwin has been to ND twice. The first time was an unofficial visit as a Junior for the 2006 home opener against PSU. He also visited campus on commencement weekend for 2007, which was the weekend of May 17-19. I know he was on campus that weekend because I was there also and saw him. He had also planned to take an unofficial visit for the USC game, but was unable to due to school related activities. At that time, Baldwin's coach said that they would definitely be re-scheduling the visit, most likely as an Official Visit.

Baldwin has said on many occassions that he would not take any officials until after football season is over. Alquippa finished their regular season last night, but they did qualify for PA state playoffs. In PA, I believe this means as many as three weeks of additional games. However, Alquippa is not expected to compete for the state championship, so their season could be over as early as next week, which means Baldwin would be able to take an Official for either AFA or Duke. If Alquippa keeps winning it is unlikely that he will be able to take an Official Visit on a football weekend, but he could still take one afterward.

[NDgrandson]

http://www.usarmyallamericanbowl.com/STEast/images/AABowl_Baldwin.gif

http://www.usarmyallamericanbowl.com/STEast/AABowl_ST_East.html

#1 on my Christmas list.

[GoshenGipper]

I have seen no reliable source with concrete information that Baldwin has an academic issue. If you guys have seen such info please share the specifics instead of just spreading the rumor

I've heard Mike Frank mention it on Power Hour that he doesn't think Jon is fully qualified yet, and from what he's heard he needs a higher test score.

[daytonirish]

I was under the impresion that a h.s. player could not recieve an offer from N.D. coaching staff if he wasn't already qualified. True or not ?

[IrishCalves]

Its also possible to lose qualification (i.e. GPA takes a dip). Just saying that there are so many things that go into an application that it could be any number of things.

[GoldenShower]

Ladies & Gents - Long-time guest and reader but haven't felt compelled to chime in with useless information. If you followed Golden Tate's recruitment last year and his verbal statement after committing, he indicated how he was less concerned with not receiving a ND written offer because he knew he needed to resubmit his SAT scores. Dayton and IrishCalves are both right in terms of academic qualification and ND's right to pull offers as a result of poor performance. This is also true for behavior issues - such as Miami's Easterling (who I realize never received an offer but obviously had issues). It is very possible that Mike Frank (I listened to this PH) is correct that Baldwin has always had a contingent offer based on resubmittal of test scores. However, it is also possible that Admin has the ability to accept candidates on special exemption. ESPN's new E:60 had a show on S. Florida, Florida State, and Florida's special exemptions and the numbers that have been allowed. This has not traditionally happened at ND but is certainly allowed by NCAA criteria.

On a side note, I worked in the ND Admin office during the Randy Moss era and also reside in Pittsburgh (with a U Pitt grad degree). I have always been under the impression that Baldwin has until NSD to decide and has always been viewed after Floyd, Goodwin, and Buckner but ahead of Harper, G. Robinson, or Walker. I'm also of the opinion that he's a freak-talent with his height and hands. Everyone in this community knows that Pitt plays a weak schedule with little fan-fare in half-filled stadiums on ESPNU and Fox Sports. I'm sure he's torn, but I firmly believe the pros outweigh the cons of joining this ridiculous recruiting class.

[goirish41]

Thanks Shower. Great first post. Welcome to Gold Helmet.

[ALLND62]

Welcome aboard GOLDENSHOWER nice post keep them comin'

[NDgrandson]

Great post Golden Shower. I hope we give Navy a golden shower, respectfully of course. Post more often here. Having worked in the admin for ND with Pittsburgh roots makes you well qualified to add $0.02 whenever you wish.

[irishryan05]

Ah, the respectful golden shower. I can think of no greater demonstration of friendship, admiration, or affirmation of another's dignity.

[tedwick]

heh. golden shower.

anyway... hopefully the fact that we're still in this means that academics are looking ok. i mean, there are a lot of borderline guys that we simply don't even start recruiting.

this is the guy we want. walker, harper, robinson, it'd be nice to land them... but this guy will be good.

[NDGirlzRock]

heh. golden shower.

anyway... hopefully the fact that we're still in this means that academics are looking ok. i mean, there are a lot of borderline guys that we simply don't even start recruiting.

this is the guy we want. walker, harper, robinson, it'd be nice to land them... but this guy will be good.

No TED this guy will be great....a first rounder if I've ever seen one!!!

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin is being quoted as saying that his latest SAT score without question qualifies him to go to ND.

[daytonirish]

That's an interesting quote. If a player makes a statement like that it makes one think we have a real good shot with him. Most players say they have an offer from N.D. but he comes out and says my last scores are good enough for N.D. I like that.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Could he be our next commit? Stay tuned folks!

[therizz]

I'm really hoping Baldwin is our next commit. But, of course he's going to want the public to know that he's academically eligible to play anywhere he wants. I'm not personally reading to much into that quote.

[Spiderman]

stonebreakerwasgod do you beleive yourself that he will be our next commit? Some people are saying he was a silent unitl he gets his SAT scores back which he did so...

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I think there is a good chance. Lots of speculation.

[NDisNCin2010]

although he said he wanted to announce his choice on LOI day...he wont wait that long.

[Spiderman]

How long are you guys thinking if he were to commit?

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Hell, he may NOT be the guy. Could be Trev, Robinson, and Page. Who knows.

[GoldenShower]

FWIW, Baldwin's high school (Aliquippa) plays Mars tomorrow night in a big quarterfinal playoff game tomorrow night. Speculation on B&G and others indicated that Weis was perhaps telling the 3 (Robinson, Walker, and Baldwin) that they'd take only 3 WRs. As much as I'd like to see Baldwin pull the trigger, perhaps he's waiting until his HS season is over (which seems to be his original plan anyhow) and he won't want to disrupt the season unless they lose. Pure speculation.

One other interesting local tidbit. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has several on-line Q&A discussions with questions every week about Baldwin. The local coverage seems to think they still have a good shot with Baldwin, but it's interesting because they always make comments that Wannstedt will only bring in about 15 scholarships in 08 - which he's sitting around 9. The PPG does not think they're waiting on Baldwin or any other recruit, in my opinion, and also make comments that they're set at starting WR next year. I know it's a local paper and single-opinion, but it's still noteworthy.

[NDisNCin2010]

Speculation on B&G and others indicated that Weis was perhaps telling the 3 (Robinson, Walker, and Baldwin) that they'd take only 3 WRs.


i would say that is an accurate statement.

[irishunclebill]

Speculation on B&G and others indicated that Weis was perhaps telling the 3 (Robinson, Walker, and Baldwin) that they'd take only 3 WRs.


i would say that is an accurate statement.

That seems to be the consensus, as well as the growing speculation that Baldwin is the silent WR commit mentioned by Gerell Robinson when he received his ND offer. There is also a lot of speculation that if Baldwin is a silent commit that he would make the committment public this week, but if there is any truth to that, Alquippa's playoff win on Saturday to continue their season may be the reason why it has not happened. This ties in with what Golden Shower reported in his post.

Here is where it gets sticky though. There are also unconfirmed reports attributed to Gerell Robinson that say there is a 50/50 chance that the "other WR' (now presumably Baldwin) that he spoke about when he received his ND offer might commit this week. Robinson is also supposed to have said that if that happens that he would cancel his trip to South Bend for the Duke game, but if that does not happen that he may commit during his ND Official Visit. Again all of this is unconfirmed, but if there is any truth to it, there may be a pecking order in place here where Baldwin has the first opportunity to take the last WR slot if the staff is indeed committed to taking only three this year. However, if he does not take it by the time someone else makes up his mind, (G. Robinson or Walker) then he may lose the slot.

If this whole scenario has any merit, it brings up a interesting dilemma for the ND coaching staff. If Baldwin really is a silent commit, but he is waiting for his HS season to end to go public, and Alquippa wins again this weekend, then he would most likely not make that announcement until after G. Robinson visits. So what happens if G. Robinson commits during his visit, would ND actually turn down an athlete like Baldwin merely because he wanted to wait until his season was over to go public. The answer to that might surprise us in that it may be that they would turn him down. For one thing it appears that G. Robinson would not commit to ND if there were already 3 WR's on board for this class, and if ND recruits another WR after a potential G. Robinson verbal, they may be going back on a promise made to him before he potentially commits. The other aspect is that part of the success of this year's recruiting class is attributable to the take no prisoners mentality that CW has shown throught the recruiting process. I am sure that they love Baldwin and would love to have him part of this recruiting class, but they must also think very highly of G. Robinson as well, otherwise they would not have offered him if it is true that at the time of his offer they had already decided they would take only 3 WR's, and there is a very real possibility that they already had 3 on board, but two of them (Floyd, Baldwin) were still silent. A pretty ballsy move by a coach with a 1-8 record, but it does seem to be the way they are handling the process this year. In truth if a promise is made to Gerell Robinson that if he commits to ND as the 3rd WR they will not recruit any more WR's, then I would expect that based on CW's previous dealings with Mustain, that both Jonathan Baldwin & Deion Walker would be turned down if they wanted to publically verbal after Robinson.

I'm hoping that they would take 4 WR's in order to potentially get both Baldwin & G. Robinson, but if there is any truth to the current rumors floating around that seems unlikely. In any case if any of these rumors are true it should be a very interesting next few weeks on the WR recruiting front. What truly amazes me about that is that a 1-8 team is definitely in the hunt for 3 Top 50 athletes from the 2008 class, and that they could conceivably turn two of them down. That is even more amazing than Kansas being a Top 5 team after 10 weeks, and UConn being 8-1. What a year!

[CULion17]

I wish we could have them all!! I think one thing that may be appealing about Robinson is if for some horrible reason our QB's got banged they could possibly put him under center.

[ND Fanatic]

IUB, do you really think that CW and his staff would let GR travel to ND for an official if they already have a silent from Baldwin and he is just waiting for his season to end ? To me it seems to go against everything thing that has been said about CW on the recruiting trail - that he is very honest with the recruits about their situation. It just seems that CW would honor Baldwin's committment (barring any visits) and would just tell GR that he has a 3rd receiver and not to come to SB because he is not going to take a 4th receiver.

To me it seems like CW may be willing to take a fourth WR if GR is still planning to come to SB. Like you said, its going to be an interesting couple weeks.

[mikejND]

I believe this case is similar to the Dan McCarthy and Jeremy Brown fiasco.

[goirish41]

In my mind, there should be no way ND could ever turn Baldwin away. He is a physical freak.

[irishunclebill]

IUB, do you really think that CW and his staff would let GR travel to ND for an official if they already have a silent from Baldwin and he is just waiting for his season to end ? To me it seems to go against everything thing that has been said about CW on the recruiting trail - that he is very honest with the recruits about their situation. It just seems that CW would honor Baldwin's committment (barring any visits) and would just tell GR that he has a 3rd receiver and not to come to SB because he is not going to take a 4th receiver.

To me it seems like CW may be willing to take a fourth WR if GR is still planning to come to SB. Like you said, its going to be an interesting couple weeks.

Again this is all based on rumors but it appears that they have been very honest with G. Robinson as based on his own comments he is aware that there is a silent commit. As far as Baldwin being a silent and honoring that, I think CW will and has done that to a point already this year, but he is probably unwilling to do it to the point of having another Benn situation this year, especially when there may be a viable and very willing alternative out there in G. Robinson, or Deion Walker.

If the 3 WR scenario is correct, and Baldwin were to come out publically as the 3rd WR, then Robinson would probably still have a spot available for him, but with the understanding that he is being slotted as an Athlete who could end up at multiple positions as opposed to a WR. I get the impression that Gerell may not be too interested in that. It would also be somewhat disingenuous of ND to do that as the Irish may have been instrumental in Gerell's decision to re-open his recruitement to play WR instead of QB in college.

I'm not trying to pound the drum too many times here, but I have to repeat that all of these scenarios are based on rumors and speculation mixed with some information from some heretofore very reliable sources, so I would caution you not to take any of this to the bank.

[stonebreakerwasgod]

One would think, so get in here Baldwin!

[daytonirish]

IUB, thanks for keeping things interesting. But somehow I have a feeling you know a little more then you are telling us. Just one members opinion.:)

[ND Fanatic]

I'm not trying to pound the drum too many times here, but I have to repeat that all of these scenarios are based on rumors and speculation mixed with some information from some heretofore very reliable sources, so I would caution you not to take any of this to the bank.

I understand what your saying IUB, I've always been a fan of Baldwin and would like to get him for sure, but I certainly understand Robinsons plight. Hopefully, by the end of the month, we'll have our receiver situation figured out.

[therizz]

I want four receivers. I want 4!!!

[The New Louis]

does anyone know what the main page of Irish Illustrated is saying about Baldwin?

[irishunclebill]

does anyone know what the main page of Irish Illustrated is saying about Baldwin?

Based on who wrote it, I would say it has to do with Baldwin saying that he has qualified academically to go to ND. Pretty sure that is what the "No Question" is in reference to.

[The New Louis]

thanks IUB

[NDgrandson]

IUB is to GH what Britney Spears is to tabloids. IUB, you are selling ad space my uncle. Whether it is a cryptic message or a heretofore source, it is always a good read. Reps. Grandpa would be proud. I am adopting you into my ND family.

Now... on the whole issue of Baldwin, :eek::eek::eek:!!!

IMO, as of a couple of days ago he wass a 40% chance and one that we would not find out about until January. He has been top 3 in my book of recruits since the beginning of the 08 class. As stated before, my Christmas list has his verbal commit at the top of it. Please!!!

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Would be nice to grab him. I'm hoping we get him out of the three. Space is limited boys, somebody needs to verbal.

[daytonirish]

And the excitement level continues to grow in Irish land. Jump on board Mr. Baldwin, we here at GH would love for you to jump on board very soon.:)

[NDChatt]

Would be nice to grab him. I'm hoping we get him out of the three. Space is limited boys, somebody needs to verbal.

I agree in hoping we get him out of the three. I think he is really special.

[mlcspinner]

My guy has been Floyd but it would be icing on the cake ( reference to my b-day) to land Baldwin. Silent commits alway make me nerves though

[notredomer23]

saying if Baldwin commits, our 5 WR and TE commits in this class our 6-6,6-6,6-8,6-7,6-4 with an average 40 time of 4.57. DAMN

[NDgrandson]

saying if Baldwin commits, our 5 WR and TE commits in this class our 6-6,6-6,6-8,6-7,6-4 with an average 40 time of 4.57. DAMN

That Floyd is a midget. 23, that is an interesting stat. I hope that Baldwin does join so we can talk about that reality and then see it happen.

[irishdan123084]

where did you get those numbers from? according to rivals

floyd is listed at 6'3"
baldwin 6'6"
Fauria 6'8"
rudy 6'6"
goodman 6'4"

[notredomer23]

where did you get those numbers from? according to rivals

floyd is listed at 6'3"
baldwin 6'6"
Fauria 6'8"
rudy 6'6"
goodman 6'4"


according to scout.... both the numbers from each site are old. i heard Floyd may have been measured at up to 6-5. Goodman is 6-6 i believe.

Edit: my bad Goodman is 6-4

[daytonirish]

Let's just hope that we get the commit from Baldwin this weekend . would sure be nice.

[goirish41]

where did you get those numbers from? according to rivals

floyd is listed at 6'3"
baldwin 6'6"
Fauria 6'8"
rudy 6'6"
goodman 6'4"

I'm sure there will times a few years from now that all five of these guys will be on the field at the same time. Can you imagine being on defense and seeing that across from you? :eek:

[marv81s]

Let's just hope that we get the commit from Baldwin this weekend . would sure be nice.

he won't be announcing that soon. He won't be making his decision public till National Signing Day in Feb.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ong ass ways to go unfortunately

[Sureal]

If I was a d-back I'd throw my helmet at him to try to get him down.
Kid is a beast...

(random: thanks for serving the country Marv81s)

[marv81s]

thanks Sureal, very much appreciated

My thanks to all of the Vets on this board, and to all the leathernecks on here, in case I don't get on here tomorrow, happy early b-day

[irishunclebill]

(thanks for serving the country Marv81s)

Ditto to that Marv, you and the rest of the guys who put their lives on the line to preserve our freedom have our infinite gratitude.

[daytonirish]

Agree 100% Thanks Marv. Wish I would have stayed in instead of leaving after my 4 years. I could be retired right now at the ripe old age of 44.

[marv81s]

Agree 100% Thanks Marv. Wish I would have stayed in instead of leaving after my 4 years. I could be retired right now at the ripe old age of 44.

there are days I wish I stayed in also. I have a couple buddies that did stay in. I only hear from one of them now and then. Both have made it up to 1st Sgt. They are having a blast, well one is, the other is on "desk duty". He hates it, but they are both alive and well. both serve in the Marines "new" version of Force Recon. Both were a lot more "gung ho" than me, they love the Corps. GOD bless 'em

Have a good b-day tomorrow!

[NDgrandson]

he won't be announcing that soon. He won't be making his decision public till National Signing Day in Feb.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ong ass ways to go unfortunately

Marv, I assume you read all of the previous posts about the rumors of Baldwin. So are you saying you know they are innacurate or are you going by what we all new before these rumblings?

[irishunclebill]

Baldwin's season will last another week as Aliquippa whipped Mars 42-20 to set up a much anticipated match-up next weekend with Terrelle Pryor and Jeannette who moved on with a 42-6 wipe out of, I kid you not, Shady Side Academy. Will the real Slim Shady, please stand up!

Should make for a very interesting week on the Baldwin/Gerell Robinson watch to see if there is any merit to all of the rumors about one's decision impacting the other's.

[RichardRiot]

moved on with a 42-6 wipe out of, I kid you not, Shady Side Academy.

Let me guess: the team name is Trojans, right???

[piyachi]

Not trying to be a debbie downer but the odds of Aliquippa beating Jeannette are....staggering. Each week I give a casual glance at the scores for the AA (size group in PA) and I have yet to see a game where a team even competed against Jeannette. Oh and they play in one of the toughest conferences in PA.

Best of luck to Jon, but all signs point to this being the last week of high school football he plays.

Yes, this week should also be interesting as far as Robinson/Baldwin. Either would be a stellar get, although I must admit the idea of a 6'6" 4.4 kind of player has my brain getting goosebumps.

[irishunclebill]

A little tidbit of interest on that front is that I am told that one of the ND recruiting mods is saying that of the three, Robinson, Walker, and Baldwin, he believes ND's best shot is with Robinson, although he also said that he believes ND is in the running for all three.

Also of note from him was his opinion that Walker will end up picking between USC & ND, which goes against the conventional wisdom that PSU & FSU are the teams for ND to beat. Walker has not ever even visited USC so that has to be on the basis of some connection to Brice Butler, much like FSU has always been in the mix because of the Walker/EJ Manuel connection.

[therizz]

I think J Baldwin will end up being a player like Ben Watson. A physical freak that can run like the wind but be a huge blocker too.

C Weis was with the Patriots when they drafted B Watson...

[Irish93]

A little tidbit of interest on that front is that I am told that one of the ND recruiting mods is saying that of the three, Robinson, Walker, and Baldwin, he believes ND's best shot is with Robinson, although he also said that he believes ND is in the running for all three.

Also of note from him was his opinion that Walker will end up picking between USC & ND, which goes against the conventional wisdom that PSU & FSU are the teams for ND to beat. Walker has not ever even visited USC so that has to be on the basis of some connection to Brice Butler, much like FSU has always been in the mix because of the Walker/EJ Manuel connection.

That is curious about Walker. I have heard from a pretty reliable source that it is a FSU/PSU battle, with ND having a chance, albeit a slim one.

[NDisNCin2010]

i say Baldwin commits this week (ala Floyd covering CW after the USC debacle)
Baldwin comes to CW rescue after this disaster.

oh and dont forget about Mr Page...I wonder how his weekend went?

[Spiderman]

This is from GG on IE "To my knowledge Baldwin will not be an EE, but I haven't heard the EE in connection with the silent outside of people speculating while trying to put the pieces together. But the good news here seems to be that the rumor about a silent verbal is gaining legs. Earlier today RJ Blanton's stepdad who goes by E-Man dropped this hint about it. He asked if they (meaning the fans/posters he was talking to) were "ready for a surprise this weekend?". While he wouldn't give up any specific names he did drop another hint that it would be "quite a catch". To me that sound's like a WR."

[NDgrandson]

This is from GG on IE "To my knowledge Baldwin will not be an EE, but I haven't heard the EE in connection with the silent outside of people speculating while trying to put the pieces together. But the good news here seems to be that the rumor about a silent verbal is gaining legs. Earlier today RJ Blanton's stepdad who goes by E-Man dropped this hint about it. He asked if they (meaning the fans/posters he was talking to) were "ready for a surprise this weekend?". While he wouldn't give up any specific names he did drop another hint that it would be "quite a catch". To me that sound's like a WR."

E-Man is hilarious. I love that. I love how he shoved up the a_s of the Michigan fans too on their board several months back. Weekend is almost over, I would love a nice surprise.

[NDisNCin2010]

where theres smoke?

[LA Playa]

It's Sunday night in California right now, does anyone know when the news of a new addition to the O8 class will be made public?

[NDisNCin2010]

who knows, maybe a kid who is being recruited by ND is not getting the assurances from the HC that the assistant recruiting him will be at ND next year.

[Ibleedblueandgold]

Quote from piyachi "Oh and they play in one of the toughest conferences in PA." Jeanette is in double aa in pensylvania and they aren't in the toughest conference it is AAAA where they pittsburgh central catholic and a guy named brendan beal from liberty

[piyachi]

Quote from piyachi "Oh and they play in one of the toughest conferences in PA." Jeanette is in double aa in pensylvania and they aren't in the toughest conference it is AAAA where they pittsburgh central catholic and a guy named brendan beal from liberty

I wasn't talking about size group, yes AAAA is arguably the toughest. I was talking about district 7, that has something like 4 of the top 10 teams in AA. Judging by the wrecking ball that is Jeanette (hopefully Lancaster Catholic - my alma mater - will play them in the state final ) I wouldn't be shocked to see them be able to knock off a top tier AAAA school.

[Spiderman]

if his team loses this weekend will he commit to us isnt that what people were saying that if he was the silent he would do it after the season which is this weekend

[NDGirlzRock]

My understanding was that he was going to wait till NSD!!! If he doesn't commit soon, I would have to believe that Weis will take more than 3WRs this year!

[RichardRiot]

So Aliquippa lost to Pryor's Jeannette team...guess we will see soon whether any of the rumor was true.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/highschool/football/s_538444.html

[GoldenShower]

Another local article from Saturday. Lost in all of this game (as a result of Terrelle Pryor's 331 yards rushing - 5 TDs) was Baldwin's efforts

6 catches - 180 yards, 3 TDs against a Jeannette team that had given up 44 points all season.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07321/834799-365.stm

[NDgrandson]

GoldenShower, if you still have connections in admissions we could find out if Walker is Irish before he announces because he will have needed to have enroll before his announcement in January at the ESPN All American game. He does not plan on making it public until then. We'll just keep it here at GH. You a gold clubber? That's a good spot for that inside info. :)

[NDGirlzRock]

Yeah baby....I'm down for that shower!!!

[goirish41]

Yeah baby....I'm down for that shower!!!

When did GH become so R rated? :D

[stonebreakerwasgod]

When did it not? :)

[GoldenShower]

GoldenShower, if you still have connections in admissions we could find out if Walker is Irish before he announces because he will have needed to have enroll before his announcement in January at the ESPN All American game. He does not plan on making it public until then. We'll just keep it here at GH. You a gold clubber? That's a good spot for that inside info. :)

Publicly, I can tell you that there is no way Saraceno or anyone on the staff would ever comment or discuss an individual's admission. There is way too much at stake in today's legal world to even suggest the status of this.

However, I will say help describe the process of EE (which did not happen at ND with regards to FB until 2 years ago, I believe). There is no doubt that if any student rumored (Cwynar, Floyd (rumored but not true, Walker) would try and enroll that there are steps that both the school and the individual would need to take, in advance. The student would clearly need to be in good standing at both high school and ND. They would need to apply, undergo a review involving the football staff and admissions, and fill out necessary paperwork. You need a reason why you want to enroll early such as pre-classes or to take specific course-work aimed at your particular degree, not just football practice (such as a requirement for Calculus for engineering majors). Point - this doesn't happen and gain approval on Dec. 23rd. Like probably all of our jobs - people take Holidays and there is a process more than a rubber-stamp of approval done within a single-day.

Walker or any other candidate would have already had to approach the staff with this intent by early December (Armando Allen committed on 12/1). He also would have to have graduated with accredited classes that meet the Unviersity's requirements. I also don't believe the staff is trying to gain EE status for candidates who are *potentials*. You normally receive an offer, gain admissions, declare your intent to accept admissions to ND, and then seek approval for EE. There is no candidate who I've ever heard of who can circumvent this system and I really doubt the school would jeopordize the institution, process, standards that apply to the entire University for single candidates.

Thus, if Deion Walker really is going EE - he's probably making an announcement within the next 2 weeks not at the AA game where he's going to spring this on the school. However, based on the facts that he's still potentially looking at Cal, LSU, or USC - it's hard to believe he's an EE, IMO.

[GoldenShower]

Long-winded reply above - back to Baldwin.

I think a number of rumors can be summarized to this:
- Only Weis, staff, and Baldwin's family knows if he was promised a spot until NSD
- Only Weis, staff, and the receivers know if ND is 100% absolutely taking 3 WRs
- Baldwin or Robinson or Walker could have been told independent information that is different then the other.

Given the last point, it is entirely possible that Robinson / Walker / Harper were told maximum 3, while Baldwin was told "we'll take you regardless". I have to think Floyd and T. Robinson were told this based upon the Sept. 1 offers.

My opinion is that Baldwin was given similar lattitude in his decision. He was offered well in advance of the other 3. The other 3 were most likely offered because there were no guarantees of Floyd or Baldwin. I also believe Baldwin my wait on Carr's replacement and that this may become a factor, especially if it's Les Miles - who has essentially had 3 first-round WRs the past 2 years. Articles from May (Allen Wallace written) point out how Michigan was a team he followed growing up and favoring. Remember, Michigan was originally his rumored leader throughout the summer until the boards and maybe some comments had this becoming a Pitt - ND battle. I wouldn't be surprised if Baldwin started taking officials to ND, Michigan, and who knows (Florida or USC). Not saying it will happen - just saying we were all hopeful in November.

[Spiderman]

anybody know what the news on baldwin is? members of the 4hl are talking about it can anyone give us a summary

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Have heard nothing substantive yet.

[marv81s]

anything at this point would be pure speculation right now on anyone's part

if him being a "silent" is true, all we have to do basically is see if goes on any visits anywhere else. I think we'll find out now that his season is done and concentrate on his recruitment now.

[ND in iNDy]

anybody know what the news on baldwin is? members of the 4hl are talking about it can anyone give us a summary
a guy went to a high school football game to watch Terell Pryor vs Baldwin.... he sat behind 2 kids from Baldwin's high school... he asked them where Baldwin was looking to go... they said that word around their town is that he is headed to ND.


anything else you want from there?:D i signed up to get the free trial and will cancel it in a few days.


*disclaimer* Just kidding rivals:cool:

[NDgrandson]

Publicly, I can tell you that there is no way Saraceno or anyone on the staff would ever comment or discuss an individual's admission. There is way too much at stake in today's legal world to even suggest the status of this.


What if I were to offer you... a rep?

[Akron Irish]

What if I were to offer you... a rep?

Never underestimate the power of a rep

[RichardRiot]

Interesting teaser on 'Eyes regarding Baldwin:

-Will start taking visits;
-ND likely to get a visit (Pitt and Miami also being looked at)
-Michigan apparently 'done' with Lllllloyd retirement

Not sure if Baldwin was the source of the info or not; above was based on limited amount that is written......

http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=2&c=703915&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fnotredame.scout.com%2f2% 2f703915.html

[irishdan123084]

well there goes the speculation that was the silent commit. told you guys. imo i still think the silent commit was made up.

[Fishin'_Irish]

well there goes the speculation that was the silent commit. told you guys. imo i still think the silent commit was made up.

Why, might I ask?

[DiamDawg]

I have never understood the silent commit thing ... Didn't Charlie say there was no such thing in our recruiting vocabulary??? .....

Just heard on the Irish eyes free show from Tuesday the scout that scouts for scout.com and he says that Alquippa is like a minor league system for Pitt .. he says he would be suprised if Pitt didnt get him ....

[The New Louis]

Silent verbals are allowed however if they wish to be a silent then they are not allowed to take any visits (official/unofficial) to other schools.

[DiamDawg]

Thanks for clearing that up for me ...

[IrishCalves]

I think the only thing that would legitimately scare Baldwin away - and this is a legitimate concern - is the future of Pitt's head coach. Sincere apologies if this is a broken record - please tell me if it is.

After three years, Wanny will still fail to deliver a winning season, baring back to back miraculous wins vs. USF and WVU, that they do get picked for any bowl game, and that they win it. 5-6, 6-6, and now sitting at 4-6 with two more to go... this can't look good when you fired a guy who in his last year went to a BCS bowl. I won't claim to know the inner workings of Pittsburgh, but Wanny certainly shouldn't feel secure with the way things have gone.

And thus, the obvious tie in here being, would Baldwin really want to throw himself at a rebuilding project?

Likewise, Miami could soon be suffering a class implosion in light of a disasterous weekend at home vs. Virginia two weeks ago. Players like Matt Patchan and Patrick Johnson let their displeasure be known with the 48-0 loss the 'Canes posted.

So, in an odd way Notre Dame's 2-9 may look better than Pitt's 4-6, or Miami's 5-6, depending on how you look at it. Either way, it certainly makes me feel like we're in this to see UM dropped, and not to see a school like LSU or USC still in the mix.

[daytonirish]

IC, totally agree with your opinion on the state of the three programs. Even though the outside world would like you to think that N.D. and Charlie are in total disarray. I think the commits we have and the recruits we're still after see through all the garbage that other people try to feed them.

[and1john]

There is a new article about Baldwin on Rivals right now, written by the Michigan site. From the sounds of it, it doesn't sound good for ND. Here is a quote from the article,

"It appears Michigan is not the only team moving down on Baldwin's list. When asked what teams he is looking at most closely, he listed just three – Miami, Florida and Pitt."
"I'm going to set some up tonight – me and my dad - probably to Miami and Florida," Baldwin said."

Then the Scout article sounds like ND is going to get a visit. Something Riot didn't mention from the Scout article is that he doesn't know whether his ACT is good enough for ND. That would obviously conflict w/ the Rivals article written last week, where he said it is "no doubt" good enough for ND. Baldwin seems a bit confused at the moment! I really hope ND can get him, but we'll see.

[rice88]

i thought he was cleared weeks ago by nd?

[marv81s]

there is a lot of confusion lately about that test score, not sure why when Baldwin himself said it was good to go, but I think we just need to relax and let this sort itself out

He isn't making a decision anytime soon, he has stated several times that his decision won't be made public till LOI day. Anything that comes out now and not from his own lips will be nothing more than a rumor

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Marv......Moderator w/o the title.

[Fishin'_Irish]

Marv......Moderator w/o the title.

It's all about the title, and the blue name. :)

[stonebreakerwasgod]

****************Breaking News*****************

Marv is hereby named Assistant Moderator.

[NDgrandson]

****************Breaking News*****************

Marv is hereby named Assistant Moderator.

Is that Assistant Moderator? Or, is is Assistant to the Moderator?

http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/images/blog/me.jpg

[marv81s]

LOL, that was good for a laugh

This is IUB's land, just throwing in my 2 cents

and besides, its all about the blue font man :p:D:p:D

[ND Fanatic]

Maybe its just me, but with all the conflicting reports we a hearing about Baldwin now, it seems that maybe we got our 3rd WR commit (silent ?), and there is no more room for JB. Its the only thing that makes sense to me from it going from a ND/Pitt race to a ND being in trouble situation.

[NDisNCin2010]

free info from Scout...clears up things quite a bit: (note the Latina reference)

http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=2&c=703915

[GoshenGipper]

there is a lot of confusion lately about that test score, not sure why when Baldwin himself said it was good to go, but I think we just need to relax and let this sort itself out

He isn't making a decision anytime soon, he has stated several times that his decision won't be made public till LOI day. Anything that comes out now and not from his own lips will be nothing more than a rumor

If you recall the test score that wsa talked about several weeks ago was a SAT score, the article mentioned an ACT score. That might be where the confusion is comming from.

[rice88]

i just hope we can land at least one of the 3-walker,baldwin,or robinson!would love to land 2 of them!

[notredomer23]

Well according to a pitt source, baldwin has dropped us so take this FWIW

Pitt on Baldwin's final list
Friday, November 23, 2007
By Mike White
Aliquippa receiver Jonathan Baldwin has narrowed his list of colleges to three -- Pitt, Miami and Florida.

Baldwin recently dropped Notre Dame from his final list.

"They really haven't been recruiting me any more," Baldwin said.

Baldwin said he will most likely make official visits to his three finalists.

[NDGirlzRock]

I'm thinking that ND actually does have a silent, because of this statement!!!! If CW didn't why would he stop recruiting Baldwin? Honestly, I think that we get both Deion and Gerrell!!!

[irishunclebill]

Well according to a pitt source, baldwin has dropped us so take this FWIW

This info completely contradicts what was published in an Irish Eyes article that was written two days before Thanksgiving, but is in line with an article written by the notoriously unreliable scUM Scout recruiting site. At first glance I would lend more credence to the Irish Eyes story that has ND as one of Baldwin's Final 3, but the direct quote from Baldwin (if it is 100% accurate) that ND is not even contacting him anymore may mean that the scUM story is correct.

[Spiderman]

what did the michigan story say?

[irishunclebill]

Here is the direct link to the info listed by ND23 above. Sorry to say but at this point this appears to be very credible information.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07327/836068-365.stm

I would not be in the least bit surprised if it turns out that Baldwin was the guy who was frequently mentioned as a possible silent commit, and there are a lot of indications that if he was, his failure to go public with any committment prior to Gerell Robinson's visit may have led to ND ceasing to go after him, especially if they feel really good about their chances with GRob. If this is true I am sure a lot of people will be unhappy with this tactic, but it does seem to follow CW's hard line recruiting stance this year. Much as I hate to see a prospect like Baldwin fall by the wayside, I have to agree with this stance. If the coaching staff has decided that they are committed to taking only a certain number of recruits at any given position and two guys are vying for that last position, you have to go for the guy you feel most comfortable with, and in this case it appears that the guy in this case is GRob. Of course, this only works if GRob eventually ends up in the ND fold, and until or if he makes that Official, the story above about ND no longer contacting Baldwin will generate some controversy.

As for the Baldwin vs. GRob comparison, on the surface Baldwin's measurables are so strong that it is difficult for me as someone not as familiar with their respective strengths to understand how ND would select GRob over Baldwin, if that was their choice. However, these guys are the professionals and until their analysis is consistently shown to be faulty, I will agree with their assessment every time. There is no doubt that if ND can land Gerell Robinson that he is a highly gifted athletic talent, probably more athletic than any of the current 21 verbals. Remember that ND stopped recruiting Marcus Forston when they landed Big Omar because on their board Big Omar was the better prospect. At the time that was a pretty gutsy move, but as their senior seasons have moved along Big Omar has moved up into Forston's ranking territory on most of the recruiting boards.

Of course all of this is meaningless until we see how these guys perform on the CFB field, but for now as long as ND lands GRob, it is somewhat disappointing if we are indeed out of the picture on Baldwin, but it is certainly not a disaster.

[notredomer23]

As for the Baldwin vs. GRob comparison, on the surface Baldwin's measurables are so strong that it is difficult for me as someone not as familiar with their respective strengths to understand how ND would select GRob over Baldwin, if that was their choice.



could he have had a case of droppsies and the coaches just didnt want that, especially having that in HS.

[irishunclebill]

could he have had a case of droppsies and the coaches just didnt want that, especially having that in HS.

Could be, but I don't see how you can drop a guy with measurables like Baldwin based on any High School performance. Maybe those vaunted measurables are not really accurate. I doubt if they are 100% correct, they usually are not, but I think it is more likely that the reason hopefully is that they like GRob as much or more than Baldwin, and are more comfortable either for academic or other reasons that he will end up at ND.

[irishunclebill]

what did the michigan story say?

Michigan story also has Pitt, Miami, and Florida as his Top Three.

[IRISHDODGER]

Thanks for the updates IUB.

IMO, give me the better athlete over the better position player. That's my opinion on every position.

[STLDomer1868]

In my opinion, we need playmakers. From all that I have read, Robinson is a true playmaker. He recently carried his team in the playoff's for a comeback victory. I agree that many times the meassurables of any high school athlete can by a bit overrated. The abilty to step up and make the key play your team needs... that is something that tape can show.

I have wanted Baldwin to commit for sometime. I have been excited to add someone with his size and speed. Good luck to Baldwin. I hope that he ends up with Pitt and not Miami or Florida. Bring on Robinson and/or Walker! Get them in here and make some damn plays! GO IRISH!

[ND Fanatic]

Well it seems to me that its one of two things:

1) We have one or possibly two silent receiver commits and there is no room for him.

2) His ACT/SAT scores ended up not being high enough to qualify.

Either way, good luck to him, he's one of the guys I really wanted.

[rice88]

i have read that his numbers this year are not that good.3 weeks ago on generation next,there was somebody on there from the pitt area and he said that baldwin wasn't catching alot of passes this year.could this have something to do with us dropping him?or grades?i doubt cw would just stop recruiting someone of baldwins caliber with out a very good reason!

[NDGirlzRock]

i have read that his numbers this year are not that good.3 weeks ago on generation next,there was somebody on there from the pitt area and he said that baldwin wasn't catching alot of passes this year.could this have something to do with us dropping him?or grades?i doubt cw would just stop recruiting someone of baldwins caliber with out a very good reason!

Honestly, I think that his team is much more run oriented....seems to me that his #s from last year were low too!!! That still doesn't change the fact that he is a freak athlete!!!

[NDgrandson]

:(

I am a bit bummed if in fact Baldwin is not coming to ND. I agree with IUBs statement that the staff knows more than I. In fact, I was on record years ago that the Chargers should have drafted Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning. I hope I am equally wrong on this one and GRob is the reason we did not get JB and GRob ends up being the next Tim Brown.

I hope this is just a Thanksgiving weekend misprint and as our schedules go back to normal on Monday, we are back in it with JB. I am in denial. :(

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Can we get one more frown???!!!!!!! (I threw in a coupla exclamation points just for u NDGR!!!!!) LOL

[NDgrandson]

:(:(:(:(
Can we get one more frown???!!!!!!! (I threw in a coupla exclamation points just for u NDGR!!!!!) LOL

[NDgrandson]

http://mr.troligt.com/leet/dawson-crying.jpg

[marv81s]

oh well, shit happens

best of luck to him and where ever he ends up. I hope like hell it isn't Pitt, I just don't know if Wannie has the brain capacity to use a kid like him and his talent.

ND still has a helluva WR recruiting class going right now, and if they end up with G Rob, that is icing on the cake

FWIW, I still think Walker ends up at Free Shoes, till after his trip to Poodlesville.

[daytonirish]

Good luck to Mr. Baldwin and lets just wait to see who else comes on board.

[goirish41]

To me, this just makes Mike Floyd and John Goodman all the more important to the class that has already committed. If we get GRob or DWalk, all the better, but we already have a pretty good haul at WR IMO.

[Fishin'_Irish]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[rice88]

we need at least one more receiver in this class,hopefully 2.with gallup,hord, ansd jackson not even seeing the field we need more depth and playmakers.

[ND Fanatic]

Well it seems to me that its one of two things:

1) We have one or possibly two silent receiver commits and there is no room for him.

2) His ACT/SAT scores ended up not being high enough to qualify.

Either way, good luck to him, he's one of the guys I really wanted.


A pretty reliable poster over on DD says that we dropped Baldwin because of grades and he couldn't qualify for ND.

[Flyin_Irish]

I believe it would have to be grades if ND stopped going after Baldwin. He was offered way before Walker or G. Robinson so you would have to think that he was #1 priority for CW and co. I would love to land Walker or Robinson (rather Walker) but we also desperately need another OL in the class. I don't believe there are any OT committed.

[GhostSpirit]

OT: Lane Clelland

[irishunclebill]

A pretty reliable poster over on DD says that we dropped Baldwin because of grades and he couldn't qualify for ND.

Just received more confirmation that is unfortunately what happened. Baldwin was ready to commit but was unable to because of academics. That is the bad news, the good news is that ND could have kept on going after JB to see if he could bring his scores up enough to qualify, the fact that they are not can only mean that the Irish feel very good about their chances with at least one other WR.

[goirish41]

First post lists his GPA as 3.35 and not even a month ago there was an article that Baldwin was quoted as saying his retake of SATs or ACTs was high enough to get into ND.

Either he just stopped trying in school or he lied about ND telling him his scores were high enough. in either case, that does not speak well for Mr. Baldwin. It is truely unfortunate because I think he is going to be a great receiver somewhere if he can balance football and academics.

[irishryan05]

That's a shame. Best of luck to him, unless/except when he plays against ND.

[NDisNCin2010]

this type of situation is one of the reasons why Urbie chose Florida over ND.
He knew we wouldnt lower our academic stds just to get a guy like JB.
No disrespect to JB, but Our Lady is better for not sacrificing acadamic standards for TD's.
I wish JB luck wherever he goes.

[irishunclebill]

First post lists his GPA as 3.35 and not even a month ago there was an article that Baldwin was quoted as saying his retake of SATs or ACTs was high enough to get into ND.

Either he just stopped trying in school or he lied about ND telling him his scores were high enough. in either case, that does not speak well for Mr. Baldwin. It is truely unfortunate because I think he is going to be a great receiver somewhere if he can balance football and academics.

In all fairness to Baldwin, his quote about his SAT scores being high enough may have been taken out of context. The timing of that comment and the subsequent news that his scores were not high enough to get him into ND makes me think that his comment was taken out of context in that it is likely that he had just re-taken the test and probably felt that he had done well enough to qualify. I know that is giving him the benefit of the doubt, but all other indicators that we have seen about Baldwin say that he is a high-quality kid, so I am willing to give him that benefit. It should also be pointed out that Baldwin goes to a school that is not known for academics in an atrociously weak educational school district.

It is unfortunate that Baldwin will suffer the loss of an ND education because of this set of circumstances, especially when it appears that he was eager to head to South Bend. This is a fine line that CW and the ND Administration has to tread over. Do they compromise their qualification criteria to allow an otherwise high quality kid like Baldwin to get in based on athletics alone, or do they stick to their guns and deny him the opportunity. Obviously, they chose the latter course, but they would be subject to a lot of criticism no matter which way they went.

Just one other note on the subject. The test score qualifications for an ND football player are already significantly lower than that of the general student population, so without knowing the exact info, it does appear that Baldwin's scores must have been very poor. We had heard that he had received an 1130 SAT score at about the same time as he was quoted as saying his scores were good enough to get into ND. At the time it was assumed that the combination of those two pieces of information meant that Baldwin had scored 1130 on the 1600 scale. It now seems likely that it was actually 1130 on the 2400 scale, which would proportionately mean that he may have scored less than 800 on the 1600 scale. If that is the case, that score may have been too much of a ethical molehill for CW and the ND Admin. to overcome in order to give Baldwin the opportunity to enroll at Notre Dame.

[IrishChieftain777]

This is rather unfortunate news. I could go on at length about the issue at hand, but I don't have all of the facts of this particular situation. I will say, however, that I think Notre Dame should take chances with kids with weak academic backgrounds if the kid has the character to work extra hard once there. No way should a kid miss out on the holistic education that the Notre Dame experience could provide (intellectually, spiritually, athletically, etc.) just because he or she is the victim of societal structures that are stacked against the kid. Besides, I know for a fact that in the past ND has admitted student-athletes with SAT scores well below 1000 (on the 1600 scale).

I wish Jonathan all the best of life, regardless of where he ends up (though I pray it's not USC :)).

[Flyin_Irish]

If the figured IUB has posted are accurate, I am glad ND stuck to their guns on this. Regardless of what has happened in the past, and regardless of his character and athletic potential, ND has a standard to live up to. This seems like the fair thing to do. It's unfortunate, but I applaud CW for sticking to the rules.

[jfschellcrna]

i have mixed emotions on this subject. i remember the difficulty holtz had getting tony rice into school, and look how successful he became. the kid definitely needed help, but he stuck with him and the story speaks for itself. if baldwin presents as the type of kid who could succeed with alot of help, should we not give him a chance?? it's certainly not his fault that he was given an inferior HS education. anyone who has been involved as an educator at some of these schools know that it is more like combat duty and not learning...

[IrishChieftain777]

If we "stuck to the rules," neither Tony Rice or a Chris Zorich would have attended ND. Exceptions were made in the past based upon the character of those kids, and look how those turned out-- and I'm not even talking about on the football field. There aren't many alums who have contributed to society as much as those two have. One of the missions of the University is to build up the kingdom of God, contribute to society, however you want to phrase it. I realize that ND can't admit just anybody. That being said, I believe you have to balance those standards with providing opportunities for those who would otherwise not have them. If a kid's academic background is mostly a result of the situation he's born into, and the kid wants to better himself and contribute to society, ND should be the first to afford that opportunity.

Again, I don't know the particulars of Jonathan Baldwin's situation, so I can't judge (nor will I) whether or not the right call was made in this situation.

[GoldenShower]

There's a lot written about Baldwin's academic qualifications, but there's a ton more that goes into his application then just self-reported GPA and SAT numbers. GPA's can be easily be tainted because of the types of classes. IE - Did he take non-accredited basket weaving or AP Calculus. With weighted grades at several schools, his 3.2 may have placed him closer to the bottom of his class rank. Perhaps he wrote his essays in crayon or dismissed sections completely. It's all been done before and it puts the jeopordy of the school system in place versus taking on an individual. My point is there's more behind the curtain then just his test scores with statements such as "we've taken lower GPA or SAT scores beofre"; and ultimately it appears Baldwin was just not admitted for academic reasons.

Chieftain and others bring up good points about Rice & Zorich being the first Prop 48-types. My question to the general board: Other then maybe Noel Devine, is there any other candidates that you could think of during Weis's tenure that did not qualify that you'd wished ND had?

Not to bring up the past, but probably 3-4 years ago - a famous ND alum and Heisman winner made statements about "ND needs to recruit the black athlete." While, we're not trying to go there - I will say that there were major statements about ND's admissions of subpar academic records and how it was impossible for ND to recruit the *best* athletes from across the country. 3-4 years later, that's never been brought up. A lot of it is Charlie vs Ty, but in addition, I do think the ND admissions office for football players has relaxed itself under Weis and Baldwin's situation was very atypical.

[IrishChieftain777]

Other then maybe Noel Devine, is there any other candidates that you could think of during Weis's tenure that did not qualify that you'd wished ND had?

GoldenShower, it's hard to respond to that one, because we don't know who ND didn't even bother going after because of academic issues. Going back a bit further, though, it was reported that Carson Palmer wanted to go to ND (he attended a Catholic HS in SoCal), but was not admitted because of academic reasons. At the very least, that would have been one less Heisman for USC!

[jfschellcrna]

you're right about the classes GS, but if the classes aren't even offered, it's a little tough for these kids to be evaluated with the same measuring stick........

[jonesman]

Guys,
I absolutely despise this discussion. If you look at this years recruiting class, it is a perfect example of how we can fill a class with all the athletes we want without changing our admissions. We got the QB, OL, RB, TE, DL, LB, DB and WR's we wanted. Other than Baldwin, who did we not get that we wanted. Look at the players that decided to come to ND and they are all rated at the top of their positions. ND should not comprimise its integrity for a few questionable recruits. I have heard the Rice and Zorich argument. I believe that they are both great great human beings, but consider this question. How many Tony Rice's, Chris Zorich's and Baldwins are there out there who can't run a 4.3 40, throw a ball a mile or tackle like crazy, do they get a scholarship to ND or even admitted??? So, if you are going to plead the case that these guys deserve a chance at ND, how come all these others don't? I say that even though the Baldwin's of the world cannot get into ND, there are plenty of Universities that will give them a FREE education and possibly a chance to get to the NFL. Do you people care at all about the other guy who cannot run fast or jump high. This is ND and we should continue to act like ND, not the U of F's who don't care that the kid they are bringing in won't be able to handle the school load put in front of him.

[Flyin_Irish]

I think it's a very fair discussion to have, but I agree with jonesman. We are getting the recruits we are targeting without having to bend rules. I'm fully aware of the Tony Rice and Chris Zorich stories and that's all fine and good that it worked out well for those guys.
ND does not bend rules to accept good characters who aren't football players and I like the fact that they don't bend rules for good characters who are football players, either.
It is unfortunate in some situations, and I think Baldwin is a good kid and if he is, then he'll find success at another program. I wish him well.

[jonesman]

Guys,
Do not take in any way that I am saying that Baldwin is a bad kid. It is merely that he may not be capable of handling the academic curriculum of ND which means he may be better in a different school. There are millions of kids who could not handle ND's academics, but they find a place at a different school. ND has set their standards and we will live by them. GO IRISH!!

[daytonirish]

I understand the standards at N.D. are very high. But yet without knowing the background of every student at N.D. how do we know if they make exceptions for certain applicants ? Also for all we know Charlie and the admin. could have told Baldwin he needed a certain score and that was not met. I would have loved to have him attend N.D. but I wish him the best success at what ever school he will attend.

[IrishChieftain777]

As I inferred with my initial comments, this is a discussion that deserves to be discussed much more at length, and I didn't want to tie up this thread. However, given some comments above, I feel it is incumbent that I weigh in. IUB, if you want to move this discussion to another thread, I completely understand.

Jonesman, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it would be hypocritical to provide opportunities to scholar-athletes that are not afforded to non scholar-athletes. The question becomes, what is the purpose of our educational system; and more importantly, what is the mission of a Catholic educational institution such as Notre Dame?

Surely, it is not perpetuate existing social conditions by buying into the notion that only people with certain SAT or ACT scores are able to handle the intellectual rigors of an education at a major research institution. High SAT and ACT scores are largely reflective of the educational formation of those that have taken them. While many individuals do not score highly because they have not taken advantage of the educational opportunities they have (I'm sure we can all think of countless examples), there are many other reasons why some individuals do not achieve certain gold standards-- including the fact that they have not had the resources/opportunities (substandard schools, often in socio-economically deprived areas) to attain the necessary skills to perform well on these tests. As you rightly point out, Tony Rice and Chris Zorich are perfect examples that this does not mean they were incapable of handling ND's academics. Chris even went on to receive his JD at ND.

So what exactly should ND's "standards" be? While developing admissions standards that take into account a kid's character-- willingness to work hard and persevere, desire to contribute to society and better the situation from which s/he came, etc.-- would be difficult at best, I don't think that excuses us. Otherwise, we are stuck with a society in which an ND education, or any other top-notch education, is only available to those who are lucky enough to be born into certain situations-- or the rare individual that beats those odds. Again, if ND's mission is to creat a more justice society (and it is: http://nd.edu/aboutnd/mission-statement/), then it should include striving against social structures that privelege certain groups. Having a more comprehensive admissions policy is one small way to help achieve that end.

[goirish41]

As I inferred with my initial comments, this is a discussion that deserves to be discussed much more at length, and I didn't want to tie up this thread. However, given some comments above, I feel it is incumbent that I weigh in. IUB, if you want to move this discussion to another thread, I completely understand.

Jonesman, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it would be hypocritical to provide opportunities to scholar-athletes that are not afforded to non scholar-athletes. The question becomes, what is the purpose of our educational system; and more importantly, what is the mission of a Catholic educational institution such as Notre Dame?

Surely, it is not perpetuate existing social conditions by buying into the notion that only people with certain SAT or ACT scores are able to handle the intellectual rigors of an education at a major research institution. High SAT and ACT scores are largely reflective of the educational formation of those that have taken them. While many individuals do not score highly because they have not taken advantage of the educational opportunities they have (I'm sure we can all think of countless examples), there are many other reasons why some individuals do not achieve certain gold standards-- including the fact that they have not had the resources/opportunities (substandard schools, often in socio-economically deprived areas) to attain the necessary skills to perform well on these tests. As you rightly point out, Tony Rice and Chris Zorich are perfect examples that this does not mean they were incapable of handling ND's academics. Chris even went on to receive his JD at ND.

So what exactly should ND's "standards" be? While developing admissions standards that take into account a kid's character-- willingness to work hard and persevere, desire to contribute to society and better the situation from which s/he came, etc.-- would be difficult at best, I don't think that excuses us. Otherwise, we are stuck with a society in which an ND education, or any other top-notch education, is only available to those who are lucky enough to be born into certain situations-- or the rare individual that beats those odds. Again, if ND's mission is to creat a more justice society (and it is: http://nd.edu/aboutnd/mission-statement/), then it should include striving against social structures that privelege certain groups. Having a more comprehensive admissions policy is one small way to help achieve that end.

yeah, especially when we are talking about a 6-6 WR who runs a 4.4 40. :D

[Flyin_Irish]

I started a thread dedicated to this in the FI forum...

[GhostSpirit]

As I inferred with my initial comments, this is a discussion that deserves to be discussed much more at length, and I didn't want to tie up this thread. However, given some comments above, I feel it is incumbent that I weigh in. IUB, if you want to move this discussion to another thread, I completely understand.

Jonesman, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it would be hypocritical to provide opportunities to scholar-athletes that are not afforded to non scholar-athletes. The question becomes, what is the purpose of our educational system; and more importantly, what is the mission of a Catholic educational institution such as Notre Dame?

Surely, it is not perpetuate existing social conditions by buying into the notion that only people with certain SAT or ACT scores are able to handle the intellectual rigors of an education at a major research institution. High SAT and ACT scores are largely reflective of the educational formation of those that have taken them. While many individuals do not score highly because they have not taken advantage of the educational opportunities they have (I'm sure we can all think of countless examples), there are many other reasons why some individuals do not achieve certain gold standards-- including the fact that they have not had the resources/opportunities (substandard schools, often in socio-economically deprived areas) to attain the necessary skills to perform well on these tests. As you rightly point out, Tony Rice and Chris Zorich are perfect examples that this does not mean they were incapable of handling ND's academics. Chris even went on to receive his JD at ND.

So what exactly should ND's "standards" be? While developing admissions standards that take into account a kid's character-- willingness to work hard and persevere, desire to contribute to society and better the situation from which s/he came, etc.-- would be difficult at best, I don't think that excuses us. Otherwise, we are stuck with a society in which an ND education, or any other top-notch education, is only available to those who are lucky enough to be born into certain situations-- or the rare individual that beats those odds. Again, if ND's mission is to creat a more justice society (and it is: http://nd.edu/aboutnd/mission-statement/), then it should include striving against social structures that privelege certain groups. Having a more comprehensive admissions policy is one small way to help achieve that end.

Yeah, what he said. :cool:

[NDgrandson]

http://www.theblogtribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/unhappy-face.gif
Me no happy bout dat.

[Spiderman]

Apparently CW is in the admin. building everyday trying to plead his case for baldwin

[Flyin_Irish]

Apparently he has given up as Baldwin said ND has not been in contact with him for a while.

[marv81s]

ship has sailed, we (ND) has a great shot at two other big time WRs

The only thing to do is wish Baldwin the best and say sorry. Its too bad to see the kids hard work not pay off, but such is life. I am sure that Weis didn't promise the lad anything in terms of telling him, you get such and such score I'll get you in."

I am sure Weis is as disappointed about not getting Baldwin as much as we are, and I'm sure Baldwin is very disappointed too that his hard work didn't pay out this time. Life is full of disappointments, suck it up and move on.

We can argue about admissions all day, it is what it is.

Best of luck to him and I hope he doesn't pick Pitt. I would hate to see a kid with his talent get wasted on a team ran by Wannie

[rice88]

this is one of the reasons(admissions) we have done nothing since 1993!!i'am so sick and tired of losing players due to our admissions!!i realy hope cw is giving mike( i forget his last name) the head of admissions hell everyday!!!

[marv81s]

I think ND's prior two head coach's had more to do with ND's short comings than admissions, but hey, thats just me

[Jstehly5511]

Couldn't agree more Marv81.

[IrishChieftain777]

I know I went off at length regarding my views on admissions in general. But there is no way in hell that our Admissions department is the reason for past poor performances in recruiting. (By the way, Dan Saracino is the Provost for Enrollment-- he's a great guy). Anyone who has followed recruiting for quite some time realizes that, at least in the case of the last coach, it was more of an unwillingness to go after the top recruits. Only Tyrone knows the motivation behind that, but suffice to say we didn't even get on the radar of the top recruits that would have been admitted.

[ND Fanatic]

I know I went off at length regarding my views on admissions in general. But there is no way in hell that our Admissions department is the reason for past poor performances in recruiting. (By the way, Dan Saracino is the Provost for Enrollment-- he's a great guy). Anyone who has followed recruiting for quite some time realizes that, at least in the case of the last coach, it was more of an unwillingness to go after the top recruits. Only Tyrone knows the motivation behind that, but suffice to say we didn't even get on the radar of the top recruits that would have been admitted.

I always go back to what Lou use to say about that very thing, he used to say (paraphrasing) "there is no way you will ever convince me that there are not 25 intelligent young men who want to play football for the University of Notre Dame". I believe him, recruiting is about hard work and building relationships and our previous few coaches weren't willing to put in the time or effort to do it well.

[Flyin_Irish]

I'm with marv and others here. rice88 = paul hornung

[jonesman]

Rice,
Get your head out from the backside. Have you looked at the kids we already have commited? Do they look like also rans and poor talent? NO! They are top of their positions. We have gone after and closed on about anyone we wanted to this season. The reasons our classes looked so bad in the past several years are NOT because of the admissions office. They are due to poor recruiting by coaches. If you question this, tell me who in the Rivals Top 100 we were not able to go after that we could have if admissions were different. Baldwin is the only one. We got our QB. We got our RB. We got 2 or our WR's so far and another couple are on the hook. We got all the DL we wanted. We got the LB's we wanted. We got the DB's we wanted. Please wake up people. We are getting the talent we want. There is always one or two that we cannot chase. If those couple cases cost us a National Title then so be it. We are ND, not Miami, Florida or even OSU.

[Jstehly5511]

I think jonesman made the point. We have gotten the talent we want this year and to make exceptions or lower your standards for that 1 or 2 people who don't qualify makes us no better than the schools who already do that.

Look at some of the quotes from our top targets. Its obvious that education is a priority to them. With the year we just had, I would bet that factor is a part of the reason we held on to those guys. The feeling that if Football doesn't work out, I still have a degree. Not just a degree, but a degree from the University of Notre Dame.

I hope that the academic requirements are never comprimised for any 1 individual.

[NDGirlzRock]

this is one of the reasons(admissions) we have done nothing since 1993!!i'am so sick and tired of losing players due to our admissions!!i realy hope cw is giving mike( i forget his last name) the head of admissions hell everyday!!!

I'm not.....ND stands for something on and off the football field!!! If you change the admissions you loose that and become a football factory. ND is integrity!!!!!! Don't loose sight of that!