PDA

View Full Version : ND and the AP Poll



eric_navy
09-14-2012, 03:37 PM
After beating Purdue, ND has climbed into the top 20 for the first time since the 2011 preseason, and only the third time since 2006. This is the second straight week that the Irish have found themselves in the top 25.

For some reason (slow day) I decided to do a little legwork on ND's history with the AP Poll week-to-week, as opposed to just at the end of the year. I decided to arrange it by coach. I got tired and stopped at Frank Leahy (the poll goes a bit further back).

Background:
The Associated Press has released a college football poll on a weekly basis during the season every year since 1936. The number of voters has varied during that time. From 1936-1961 and 1968-1988, 20 teams were ranked. From 1962-1967, only 10 teams were ranked. Since 1989, 25 teams have been ranked. Prior to 1950, the first poll was held in October. Since then, polling has started before the season.


Frank Leahy (1941-1943, 1946-1953)
105 polls

-13 times UNranked (first poll of 1942, 11 times in 1950/1951, once in 1952)
-38 times #1
-61 times in top 3
-48 straight weeks in top 3 from 1943-1950 ('44,'45 not included since he did not coach). This would be tied for the 2nd longest top 5 streak, behind Miami's record of 55 straight from 2000-2003.
-38 consecutive weeks ranked #1 or #2 from 1946-1950. This is tied for the 8th longest streak of of top 5 appearances.
-received #1 votes in at least one weekly poll every year



Terry Brennan (1954-1958)
60 polls

-12 times UNranked (last 8 weeks of 1956, twice each in 1957, 1958)
-28 straight weeks in top 20 from 1954-1956
-2 times #1 (both 1954)
-19 weeks in the top five - at least once each year
-received #1 votes in at least one poll every year

Note: As an indicator of how much things have changed since 1958, Terry Brennan was fired despite finishing in the top 20 in 4 of his 5 seasons and reaching the top 5 and receiving a #1 vote at least once per year. Can you imagine Fr. Jenkins choosing not to renew BK's contract if he finishes the next three seasons in the top 20?



Joe Kuharich/Hugh Devore (1959-1963)
52 polls

-8 times ranked
-31 straight weeks unranked from 1961-1963 (longest streakat ND until 33 from 2007-2008)
-received #1 votes in 1959 and 1961
-unranked for all of 1962 and 1963 - first seasons in which ND has never been ranked. This also occured in 2007, 2008, and 2010.



Ara Parseghian (1964-1974)
153 polls

-only 4 times UNranked (1964 preseason, twice in 1967, once in 1969)
-20 times #1 (11 straight in 1966-1967)
-42 weeks in top 3
-66 weeks in top 5
-130 weeks in top 10 (41 straight in 1964-1967, 30 straight in 1969-1970 and 1973-1974)
-received #1 votes every year except 1969 and 1972

Note: Ara's undefeated 1973 team finished #1 despite not having been ranked higher than #3 in any poll DURING the season, and only above #5 once.



Dan Devine (1975-1980)
89 polls

-14 times UNranked (last 4 of 1975, twice in 1976, 3 in 1978, last 5 of 1979)
-2 times #1 (final poll of 1977, once in 1980)
-42 weeks in top 10 (15 straight in 1980, 11 of 12 in 1978-1979)
-17 weeks in top 5
-received #1 votes in 1977, 1978, 1980

Note: Like Ara's 1973 team, Devine's 1977 NC team was ranked #1 in only one poll - the final one.



Gerry Faust (1981-1985)
80 polls

-29 weeks ranked (much of 1982, at least once in every season)
-started every season in the top 20, but never finished a season that way
-#1 for one week in 1981 (finished 5-6)
-5 weeks in top 5, but never after the 3rd week of the season
-11 weeks in top 10
-received #1 votes in 1981 and 1984
-ranked in top 20 for 8 consecutive weeks in 1982
-unranked 14 consecutive weeks in 1985, 11 in 1981 (after being #1 in week 3)



Lou Holtz (1986-1996)
183 polls

-23 weeks unranked (14 of 15 weeks in 1986, last 9 weeks of 1994)
-26 weeks ranked #1 (19 times in 20 weeks in 1988/1989)
-122 weeks in top 10 (50 straight and 57 of 58 from 1988-1991)
-71 weeks in top 5 (35 straight in 1988-1990, 17 straight in 1993-1994)
-46 weeks in top 3 (22 straight in 1988-1989)
-ranked in top 10 at least once in every season except 1986
-received #1 votes in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1996

Note: Lou's teams were ranked in the AP Poll for 124 consecutive weeks from 1987-1994. At the time, this was the 5th longest such streak in history. It is still the 10th longest, having since been passed by USC (130 from 2002-2009), Colorado (143 from 1989-1997), Texas (162 from 2000-2010), Florida (209 from 1989-2001), and Florida State (211 from 1989-2001). ND was also ranked in 97 consecutive polls from 1969-1975. This is the 18th longest such streak, but in 1975 it was the 3rd longest. Nebraska holds the essentially unbreakable record of 348 straight weeks from 1981-2002. The longest active streak is Alabama, with 68 since 2008.


Bob Davie (1997-2001)
85 polls

-43 times ranked (every week in 1998, 20 straight in 1998-1999)
-3 weeks in top 10 (never ranked in the top 5)
-never received a #1 vote
-unranked 14 consecutive weeks in 1997 (started #11)
-unranked 14/15 weeks during 1999/2000 (started '99 #15, finished '00 #18)

Note: Davie's teams started 1997, 1999, 2001 in the top 20 and finished unranked. They started 2000 unranked but finished in top 20.



Ty Willingham (2002-2004)
51 polls

-21 weeks ranked (19 straight in 2002-2003)
-9 weeks in the top 10 (9 straight in 2002)
-received a single #1 vote while 8-0 in 2002
-unranked 21 straight weeks and 28 out of 30 in 2003/2004



Charlie Weis (2005-2009)
80 polls

-36 weeks in the top 25 (31 straight in 2005/2006)
-18 weeks in the top ten (13 straight in 2005/2006)
-4 weeks in top 5 (late 2005, early 2006)
-received #1 votes in first 3 weeks of 2006
-unranked in 33 straight weeks in 2007/2008 (longest such streak in ND history)
-never ranked during 2007 and 2008 season. This also happened in 1962, 1963, and 2010.



Brian Kelly (2010-present)
34 polls so far

-5 weeks in top 25
-no top 15 rankings - this could change with a win tomorrow
-unranked 15 straight weeks and 25 out of 26 in 2010/2011
-unranked for all of 2010, fifth time this has happened (1962, 1963, 2007, 2008)

Note: BK's active streak of 2 weeks in the top 25 ties his ND record from last year. His career record is 15 straight weeks in 2009 (the last 12 of those in the top 10), although this includes a preseason NR despite being 11-3 the previous year. If you ignore that preseason poll, the streak extends to 21 going back to 2008.

NDisNCin2010
09-14-2012, 04:22 PM
appreciate the effort here eric...wow...but not sure what the research is telling us/uncovering

eric_navy
09-14-2012, 04:25 PM
Just found it interesting in it's own right.

NotreDameNate
09-14-2012, 04:50 PM
Damn dude! Great work my man! That's some Manti Te'o effort!

Guff
09-23-2012, 03:49 PM
AP voter breakdown - The asswipe who covers USC has ND ranked 21 in his poll


Pollspeak.com (http://www.pollspeak.com/component/option,com_psreport/Itemid,3/lang,en/p,46/p_1,46/r,T/r_1,T/s,21/s_1,21/t1,72/t1_1,72/t2,0/t2_1,0/v,0/v_1,0/w,5/w_1,5/)

luckofirish8
09-23-2012, 05:08 PM
Scott Wolf was also the reporter that Lane booted for reporting on a team injury. He also picked LSU over Bama.

jerseyborn1971
09-24-2012, 07:46 AM
From #5 to #21....gotta love Notre Dame and how strongly people feel and differ about them.

NDisNCin2010
09-24-2012, 08:55 AM
AP voter breakdown - The asswipe who covers USC has ND ranked 21 in his poll


Pollspeak.com (http://www.pollspeak.com/component/option,com_psreport/Itemid,3/lang,en/p,46/p_1,46/r,T/r_1,T/s,21/s_1,21/t1,72/t1_1,72/t2,0/t2_1,0/v,0/v_1,0/w,5/w_1,5/)


thats a cool site--like the way you can see by specific team how the votes came in.
cmon hansen throw in a homer vote down near 5 or 6

adamsfamily03
09-24-2012, 10:44 AM
So apx 85% had us voted at #10 or better. I would say that it a good representation of the majority of AP voters.......

eric_navy
09-24-2012, 11:44 AM
With this weekend's win over Michigan (sucks), Kelly's Irish have moved into the AP top ten for the first time (he was in the top ten several times at Cincinnati). This is the first time ND has been in the top ten since 2006, and it continues a pretty amazing streak: since the AP poll was established in 1936, EVERY ND coach has been ranked in the top ten at least once during his tenure. I don't know if any other team can say that and don't care to try to find out. Kelly was the slowest to get his first top ten ranking, but with this defense, hopefully he can spend plenty of time there over the next few years.

-Elmer Laydn was #7 in the inaugural poll in October 1936.
-Frank Leahy opened his ND career at #8 and was in the top ten all of that year.
-Ed McKeever was in the top ten every week in his only season at ND (1944). He is the only coach open his ND career at #1.
-Hugh Devore spent all of 1945 in the top ten, and finished #9. He was never ranked in 1963.
-Terry Brennan was in the top ten for most of his first two seasons.
-Joe Kuharich reached the top ten 3 weeks into his first season but finished 5-5.
-Ara started his first season (1964) unranked, but cracked the top ten the following week and stayed there until mid-1967.
-Dan Devine was in the top ten for his first five weeks at ND (and plenty of times after that).
-Gerry Faust was in the top ten in each of his first three weeks (and every year from 1981-1984, but never finished in top 20).
-Lou Holtz reached the top ten 2 weeks into 1987. More about this below.
-Bob Davie reached the top ten in the second week of 1998.
-Ty spent much of his first season in the top ten.
-Charlie was in the top ten a lot in his first two seasons.

Kelly is the 14th ND coach since 1936 (not including George O'Leary) He is the third to NOT have a team ranking in the top ten during his first season. The other two were Lou Holtz and Bob Davie.

Davie was #11 in the preseason of 1997, but started 1-4 and wasn't ranked anymore that year. He only spend a total of 4 weeks with a ranking of #10 or higher, 3 of those in 1998.

Lou's 1986 team started 1-4 and was only ranked once (#20 after LOSING the opening game to Michigan (sucks)). His 1987 team is a template for what could have been in 2011. They started at #18 and reached #9 after a 2-0 start and were in the top ten for about half the year. They were as high as #7 after an 8-1 start, but lost their last 3 games, including the Cotton Bowl, to finish #17. In 1988 they started #13 and moved to #8 after beating Michigan (sucks) in the opener. That #8 ranking would be the worst Lou's Irish would receive until 1991. They were ranked in the top ten for each of the next 50 weeks, and 57 of the next 58. They would also rank in the top ten for most of 1992 and 1993 (the last time ND was #1) and the first half of 1994. After his first season, when he was 5-6, Lou's teams spent a minimum of 7 weeks in the top ten each year.

Which one will Kelly more closely resemble? I don't know the answer to that, but I DON'T have the strong suspicion that things are headed downhill. This ND team may not be one of the 10 best in the country, but they have a scary defense that can keep them in the game against just about anyone. They have great young players and recruiting seems to be rolling. The offense needs a lot of work, but somehow that seems easier to fix than defense. I probably would have said all the same things in 2002 before the wheels fell off, though. I guess we'll just have to wait and see and enjoy the ride.

Welcome back to the top ten, Irish. It's good to have you home.

eric_navy
09-24-2012, 12:27 PM
Also worth noting, though not related to the AP poll - Saturday was the 30th game the Irish have played under Coach Brian Kelly, and they are 20-10 in those games. This is the first time that Kelly's record as an ND coach has been better than that of Charlie Weis though the same number of games. Charlie started 19-4, then lost 11 of the next 12 to fall to 19-11 and eventually 20-15.

Through 30 games, BK is also better than Willingham (18-12), Davie (18-12), Faust (17-12-1), Kuharich (12-18), and Brennan (19-11). He is behind Leahy (24-3-3), Ara (25-3-2), and Devine (23-7).

Looking ahead to the first 40 games, Devine was 31-9, so he is out of reach for now, but Faust was 24-15-1, Davie was 23-17, and Charlie was 24-16. This team should definitely be able to exceed those numbers. Ty was fired after only 36 games (21-15) and we'll consider Leahy and Ara untouchable for the moment (career winning % of .855 and .836, respectively).

Of particular interest, through 30 games, Lou was also 20-10. He and BK also had the same record through 20 games (13-7). It would be very nice if they were tied through 40 because games 31-40 for Lou fell right in the middle of a 23 game winning streak that included a national championship.

jerseyborn1971
09-24-2012, 01:07 PM
Coliin Cowherd is more than happy to point out every 3 min and 27 seconds that Vegas has ND ranked #16 and USC #5. That dude is becoming a bigger SC homer than Dan Weber.

He also doesn't have FSU in his top 10 because they haven't won any big games in the last 10 years. Not sure why the last 10 years has any effect on how good a team is NOW. Also not sure how he doesn't see beating a Top 10 Clemson team is a big game.

Meanwhile, SC losing to Stanford means nothing.

NDAlumSon
09-24-2012, 01:16 PM
I don't know how anybody can take a guy name Cow Herd or Coward seriously, anyway. Just like Barry Soetoro. What is he, a fucking matador or a WWII Japanese dive bomber ??

jerseyborn1971
09-24-2012, 01:20 PM
I believe he is the President of the United States. The first black, white, Spanish and Japanese President.

Sweeney6083
09-24-2012, 01:25 PM
Cownerd is a vegas/west coast guy, he is all about sizzle not about the steak, he is just a bunch of sound bits with odd commentary in between. He is goofy and not exactly the guy i go to for objective info.

Guff
09-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Not listening to Cowherd saves brain cells.

ACamp1900
09-24-2012, 01:59 PM
Sad thing is many people across the country form their opinion based on this guy's spew.... If i talk cfb with any random co-worker/friend/person I meet at a bar... they clearly echo what the guy is saying...

jerseyborn1971
09-24-2012, 03:18 PM
I can only imagine how much money this guy has blown in Vegas in Sportsbooks and Strip clubs.

Guff
09-24-2012, 03:34 PM
I can only imagine how much money this guy has blown in Vegas in Sportsbooks and Strip clubs.

and Jergen's. He world's biggest jerkoff

LOVEMYIRISH
09-24-2012, 06:58 PM
Also worth noting, though not related to the AP poll - Saturday was the 30th game the Irish have played under Coach Brian Kelly, and they are 20-10 in those games. This is the first time that Kelly's record as an ND coach has been better than that of Charlie Weis though the same number of games. Charlie started 19-4, then lost 11 of the next 12 to fall to 19-11 and eventually 20-15.

Through 30 games, BK is also better than Willingham (18-12), Davie (18-12), Faust (17-12-1), Kuharich (12-18), and Brennan (19-11). He is behind Leahy (24-3-3), Ara (25-3-2), and Devine (23-7).

Looking ahead to the first 40 games, Devine was 31-9, so he is out of reach for now, but Faust was 24-15-1, Davie was 23-17, and Charlie was 24-16. This team should definitely be able to exceed those numbers. Ty was fired after only 36 games (21-15) and we'll consider Leahy and Ara untouchable for the moment (career winning % of .855 and .836, respectively).

Of particular interest, through 30 games, Lou was also 20-10. He and BK also had the same record through 20 games (13-7). It would be very nice if they were tied through 40 because games 31-40 for Lou fell right in the middle of a 23 game winning streak that included a national championship.

stats are a bit goofy... CW was 22-15 through 3 years.

eric_navy
09-24-2012, 07:26 PM
stats are a bit goofy... CW was 22-15 through 3 years.

Yeah, he won the last two games of 2007 (against Stanford and Duke) to get to 22-15 and end a truly brutal stretch for ND football.

He really did have a crazy career at ND. Won 19 of his first 23 and generally looked good doing it. Then lost 11 of the next 12 and looked really bad doing it. Then basically played .500 football for the last 2 years with some decent stretches and some not-so-good ones.

jerseyborn1971
09-24-2012, 07:35 PM
If had a halfway decent defense in 08 and 09, he'd still be the coach at ND. He'd probably be on the hotseat right now though because Dayne would still be our QB and our defense would not be what it is today.

LOVEMYIRISH
09-24-2012, 11:23 PM
Yeah, he won the last two games of 2007 (against Stanford and Duke) to get to 22-15 and end a truly brutal stretch for ND football.

He really did have a crazy career at ND. Won 19 of his first 23 and generally looked good doing it. Then lost 11 of the next 12 and looked really bad doing it. Then basically played .500 football for the last 2 years with some decent stretches and some not-so-good ones.

The 11 of 12 thing is a bit cherry picking since its split across 2 years.

There was not much crazy about it. Looking back, it all makes sense.

Weis took a bunch of guys who were more or less NFL material (to at least get drafted or picked up as a Free Agent). He won 19 of 25 games with them.

The 3rd year he had a bunch of guys who had seen little action and were not draft material (since Ty left two shitty classes in a row to Weis). Weis then proceeded to underachieve since he was not a good College coach. Those two issues compounded one another.

Then, in years four/five (or year 2/e of HIS new team) he was mediocre. That reflected him well. He was simply not the right guy to coach guys who needed the fundamentals. He was ready to take a bunch of Seniors and Juniors who were good and kick ass with them by teaching them the NFL game early. He just did not appreciate that you need to walk before you run.

eric_navy
09-25-2012, 08:33 AM
you need to walk before you run.

Words to live by.

eric_navy
10-18-2012, 12:02 PM
In all the excitement about Manti for Heisman and the big win over Stanford on Saturday I forgot about this thread.

This week, ND is ranked in the top 5 in the AP for the first time since September 2006. This is the fourth consecutive week that the Irish have been in the AP top ten, so Brian Kelly has officially spent as much time in the top ten as Bob Davie did in his career, though Davie never ranked higher than #9.

Kelly still has a long way to go to catch up with Ty, who was in the top ten for 10 straight weeks in 2002. However, Ty only got into the top 5 once - a peak ranking of #4 with a single first place vote after beating Florida State in Tallahassee. It's not at all unlikely that Florida (vs. S. Carolina) or KSU (@WVU) will lose this week, and Oregon is @ASU, who is top 20 in scoring offense and defense, so if the Irish beat BYU, they could meet or exceed that #4 ranking. First place votes will be hard to come by, though, unless/until Alabama and Oregon both lay an egg. Outstanding performances in wins over BYU and OU could change that, but I'm not going to count my chickens just yet.

Before the wheels fell off the bus, Charlie spent 18 weeks in the top ten in 2005/2006, including 4 weeks in the top 5. His best ranking was #2 with 10 #1 votes in the 2006 preseason poll (and #2 with 3 #1 votes 2 weeks later). I think this team would likely have to be 12-0 AND get a little help to match that. Of course, those #1 votes in 2006 were symptoms of irrational exuberance (guilty - I got SOOO drunk on that Kool-Aid) and the 2006 team (with the exception of the PSU game) was ultimately more style than substance. At 12-0 against this schedule, a #1/#2 ranking would be richly deserved. Not only am I not going to count those chickens, I'm afraid to even look at the eggs yet.

eric_navy
10-29-2012, 10:46 AM
After an unbelievably satisfying win over the Sooners, ND has advanced to #4 in the AP. This is the 6th straight week that the Irish have been in the top ten, and the third straight week in the top 5. If the lads can find a way to beat Pittsburgh next week, BK will match Charlie Weis's career total of four weeks in the AP top 5. If they can carry that momentum to a win over Boston College, he will tie Gerry Faust's total of 5 (his first three weeks as coach in 1981 and the first two polls of 1983).

ND's ranking of #4 is it's highest since the Irish were briefly considered championship contenders in early 2006 and ties the highest career ranking of Ty Willingham, his only top 5 ranking. However, Ty did get 1 first place vote that week, something BK has yet to do at ND. In reality, ND probably won't get any #1 votes unless/until Alabama loses, although that may not be entirely out of our hands at this point...

eric_navy
11-16-2012, 04:40 PM
In reality, ND probably won't get any #1 votes unless/until Alabama loses

With Alabama's loss last week, ND moved up to #3 in the AP poll, their highest ranking since September 2006 (#2). Ty's highest ranking was #4 in his first season, so Brian Kelly has bested him in this category. The Irish also received one first place vote, their first under BK, so Bob Davie remains the only non-interim Irish coach to never receive a #1 vote in the poll.

With 5 straight weeks in the top five, Brian Kelly has passed Charlie Weis (4) and tied Gerry Faust in career top five rankings. It will take a while to climb the ladder any further in this category, as next up will be Dan Devine (17) and Terry Brennan (19). The other remaining coaches are Ara, Leahy, and Lou, and we'll leave them out of the conversation for now.

If they win this week, ND will be in the top ten for the 9th straight week, tying Ty Willingham's top ten streak from 2002, and putting Kelly halfway to Charlie Weis's 18 top ten rankings.

Also, this is not related to the AP poll, but if ND pulls off a win tomorrow, it will be the first time since 1998 that the Irish have held serve at home.

irishman43
11-18-2012, 02:31 PM
USA today coaches poll....Three coaches don't vote ND #1 My bet is sabin, spurrier, and richt

Any way of finding out?

I just read where one coach voted them fourth. My bet is Spurrier!

eric_navy
11-18-2012, 07:00 PM
Notre Dame is #1.

Let that sink in for a minute.

It has been so long since that has happened that many of us barely even remember the time when it was expected. The last time ND was #1 was November 20, 1993. Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham, and Charlie Weis all had good seasons and top ten rankings, but none reached the top of the mountain for even a single day. Prior to 1997, every non-interim ND coach except Joe Kuharich was #1 at least once.

-Lou Holtz was #1 26 times (19 in 1988-1989), or roughly 14% of all polls during his tenure.
-Gerry Faust was #1 for one week early in his first season (finished 5-6).
-Dan Devine was in the top ten 42 times, almost half of all polls, but only reached #1 twice, including the final poll of 1977.
-Ara was #1 20 times, or roughly 13% of all polls while he was the coach. (He was in the top ten 130 of 153 weeks.)
-ND was never #1 during the Kuharich/Devore era from 1959-1963, but did receive #1 votes in two of those years.
-Terry Brennan was in the top five 19 times, at least once a year from 1954-1958, but was only#1 twice, both in 1954.
-Frank Leahy was #1 38 times, about 36% of all polls while he was head coach, and almost every week from 1946-1949.

If the Irish can keep this ball rolling for one more game, BK will pass Gerry Faust and tie Terry Brennan and CFB HOF'er Dan Devine with two #1 rankings. Also, since ND will be idle during the last week of the season, the Irish would presumably get that #1 for free, as it were. This would give BK three #1 rankings, leaving him behind only the legendary trio of Leahy, Ara, and Lou. He has a long way to go if he is going to catch up with them, but I'm looking forward to the chase.

ACamp1900
11-18-2012, 07:47 PM
Crazy that Devine only hit it twice, one being a final poll