It's embarrassing when you have to completely abandon the run at halftime.

[Revolver]

And only down 10 points to boot. I guess after this game i'm left with a few questions.

1. Why is Latina still here?

2. Why does our offense still look so slow?

3. Why didn't Charlie bring in a "Tenuta" for the offense?

4. Did Charlie really hand over the playcalling to a guy who has been holding a clipboard for three years? In a year where his job could be in jeopardy?

5. After 3 games does the defense have any sacks?

6. How many sacks did we allow today? How many yards rushing? does anybody still think the o-line is drastically improved?

7. In his now 4th year, why can't Charlie find someone who can kick an effing fieldgoal?

[dahooligan]

And only down 10 points to boot. I guess after this game i'm left with a few questions.

1. Why is Latina still here?

2. Why does our offense still look so slow?

3. Why didn't Charlie bring in a "Tenuta" for the offense?

4. Did Charlie really hand over the playcalling to a guy who has been holding a clipboard for three years? In a year where his job could be in jeopardy?

5. After 3 games does the defense have any sacks?

6. How many sacks did we allow today? How many yards rushing? does anybody still think the o-line is drastically improved?

7. In his now 4th year, why can't Charlie find someone who can kick an effing fieldgoal?


we have some personell problems on this team. no pass rusher, no kicker, no go to rb, no dominating ol, no dominating dl, no reliable TE at the moment

[publicola]

no dominating ol

On paper, we do. Therein lies the problem.

[dahooligan]

On paper, we do. Therein lies the problem.

well i was talking about one o-linemen, unless u r referring to sam young

[notredomer23]

we have some personell problems on this team. no pass rusher, no kicker, no go to rb, no dominating ol, no dominating dl, no reliable TE at the moment

Bolded is what I somewhat disagree on. Our O-Line can pass block, they just can't run block. No pass rusher I disagree with, considering Harrison Smith got out in there and Brian Smith got good pressure too. Everyone thinks that blitzing is all on the LBers, but it also has a HUGE ammount to do with D-Line play which mediocre at best. I somewhat disagree because Rudolph is good in passing situations, not so much in running situations.

[dahooligan]

Bolded is what I somewhat disagree on. Our O-Line can pass block, they just can't run block. No pass rusher I disagree with, considering Harrison Smith got out in there and Brian Smith got good pressure too. Everyone thinks that blitzing is all on the LBers, but it also has a HUGE ammount to do with D-Line play which mediocre at best. I somewhat disagree because Rudolph is good in passing situations, not so much in running situations.

we have what 1 sack on the season? we dont' have a pass rushing DE or a DT that can get in the backfield consistently right now (could have been solved with Trattou and Hunter though :drooling:)

so far the ol has been able to pass block, run blocking sucks ass. jury still out on nd's oline. but i mean we don't have that dominating o-linemen like a Jake Long last year for scUM, know what i mean?

and we don't have that go to rb like we did with darius walker. and rudolph just isn't ready yet which is why i said it sucked we lost reuland in my other thread

[notredomer23]

The reason I disagree on the RB topic because all 3 of our RB's are ultra talented its just that the damn line could run block. Seriously Allen showed he can be shifty, we know what Hughes is capable of, Alrdidge is more than capable

[IrishR#1]

(could have been solved with Trattou and Hunter though :drooling:)


They don't play for us, so quit bringing them up.

[dahooligan]

The reason I disagree on the RB topic because all 3 of our RB's are ultra talented its just that the damn line could run block. Seriously Allen showed he can be shifty, we know what Hughes is capable of, Alrdidge is more than capable

talented, but not consistent which is the problem with the rb's. their young though, so hopefully they'll put it together


They don't play for us, so quit bringing them up.

u mad? lets not bring up anything then

[sonomairishfan]

And only down 10 points to boot. I guess after this game i'm left with a few questions.

1. Why is Latina still here?

2. Why does our offense still look so slow?

3. Why didn't Charlie bring in a "Tenuta" for the offense?

4. Did Charlie really hand over the playcalling to a guy who has been holding a clipboard for three years? In a year where his job could be in jeopardy?

5. After 3 games does the defense have any sacks?

6. How many sacks did we allow today? How many yards rushing? does anybody still think the o-line is drastically improved?

7. In his now 4th year, why can't Charlie find someone who can kick an effing fieldgoal?

1. have no clue at all. he may have to leave after this fall.
2. i think the skill guys have speed. i just don't think they know the playbook yet.
3. Charlie is supposed to be the "Tenuta" on offense
4. it was a good move for CW to hand over OC job. the guy will improve as the youngsters improve.
5. 1 sack right?
6. the o-line is much better. last year they couldn't pass protect or run block. this year they can pass protect. next year they'll be able to do both. (i hope) i don't think the o-linemen are very athletic and that really helps with run blocking. as they age, they'll get better. i'd like to see ND run out of the spread with AA.
7. i've watched ND since i was a snot nosed little kid and the only kickers i remember being decent was Reggie Ho and Craig Hentrich, (Hentrich may have just punted though) screw FG's just go for the first down on the plus side of the 50.

[mlcspinner]

lets stop bringing up athletes that aren't here as solutions to the problems that we feel this team has

[Coyote King]

If you remember when CW first had success, It seems like he used the pass to set up the run. I know it isn't traditional logic, but it sure worked well. Spread the D out, did the little quick hitters. Now we act like we have to establish the run first. The second half offense looked pretty darn good when we went back to that. Why are we waiting until we must do that? I say we start our games with the spread, do the little draws with AA to mix it up, and go deep occasionally to keep'em honest. I think we do that from the start today and we probably win. We basically played prevent the first half.

[publicola]

If you remember when CW first had success, It seems like he used the pass to set up the run. I know it isn't traditional logic, but it sure worked well. Spread the D out, did the little quick hitters. Now we act like we have to establish the run first. The second half offense looked pretty darn good when we went back to that. Why are we waiting until we must do that? I say we start our games with the spread, do the little draws with AA to mix it up, and go deep occasionally to keep'em honest. I think we do that from the start today and we probably win. We basically played prevent the first half.

Great minds think alike! I posted this in the game thread:

"I don't think we were a great running team in 2005, but we were an effective and efficient running team because we set it up with a very good short to intermediate passing game. I'd like to see us get back to that -- maybe re-learn how to execute the screen pass, etc. I mean, if you can't run, then use a ball control passing game. I don't really understand the bombs. Those aren't high percentage plays, and even when they work, they don't help control the clock. It's kind of odd: we possess the ball longer in our 2-minute drill than in our regular offense."

[Coyote King]

Great minds think alike! I posted this in the game thread:

"I don't think we were a great running team in 2005, but we were an effective and efficient running team because we set it up with a very good short to intermediate passing game. I'd like to see us get back to that -- maybe re-learn how to execute the screen pass, etc. I mean, if you can't run, then use a ball control passing game. I don't really understand the bombs. Those aren't high percentage plays, and even when they work, they don't help control the clock. It's kind of odd: we possess the ball longer in our 2-minute drill than in our regular offense."

I knew I liked you for some reason, you are one smart individual!

[irish_bobcat]

Great minds think alike! I posted this in the game thread:

"I don't think we were a great running team in 2005, but we were an effective and efficient running team because we set it up with a very good short to intermediate passing game. I'd like to see us get back to that -- maybe re-learn how to execute the screen pass, etc. I mean, if you can't run, then use a ball control passing game. I don't really understand the bombs. Those aren't high percentage plays, and even when they work, they don't help control the clock. It's kind of odd: we possess the ball longer in our 2-minute drill than in our regular offense."

I agree with you. We need to be successful in setting up the passing game to set up the run. We should have came out throwing the ball today.

[SpanishElite]

we have some personell problems on this team. no pass rusher, no kicker, no go to rb, no dominating ol, no dominating dl, no reliable TE at the moment

No go to RB? I think we do have 2 go to RBs Hughes and Allen. But there both good so we play both. So does USC not have a go to RB because they use so many? We all knew coming in in a 3-4 you never have a dominating pass rush. The pressure comes from the OLB. So with us more 4-3 this year our ends (Ryan, Richardson, E. Johnson) arent great pass rushers.
Remember that we had 1 TE leave and 1 TE get hurt so there the answer for that.

[sreepointer]

Even in 2005 and 2006, the running game wasn't great. They were ABLE to run, but not great at it, and that was only because they they could throw down field. CW needs to play to the strengths of the offense, which at this point is passing, and I think he will. It is still early and as he has said before, they are looking for an identity. I think they have found one, but we will wait and see.

[Flyin_Irish]

6. the o-line is much better. last year they couldn't pass protect or run block. this year they can pass protect. next year they'll be able to do both. (i hope) i don't think the o-linemen are very athletic and that really helps with run blocking. as they age, they'll get better. i'd like to see ND run out of the spread with AA.

O line is better, yes. Good, not so much. We may have an average-at-best OL right now. Last year was bottom of the barrell. So there's still a long way to go, and that's to be expected. Those who said "the O line will turn around and be dominant!!!1!!!" were fooling themselves. As for ND running a spread, I saw all I needed to see last year. Didn't like it.

[untitledproject]

And only down 10 points to boot. I guess after this game i'm left with a few questions.

1. Why is Latina still here?

2. Why does our offense still look so slow?

3. Why didn't Charlie bring in a "Tenuta" for the offense?

4. Did Charlie really hand over the playcalling to a guy who has been holding a clipboard for three years? In a year where his job could be in jeopardy?

5. After 3 games does the defense have any sacks?

6. How many sacks did we allow today? How many yards rushing? does anybody still think the o-line is drastically improved?

7. In his now 4th year, why can't Charlie find someone who can kick an effing fieldgoal?

1. You got me. I thought he was toast last season
2. I really have no idea how or RG is so predictable.
3. ?
4. His job is 100% not in jeopardy. It's not even a debate.
5. Yes
6. 2 and yes
7. I have no fucking clue. :) Get someone off the soccer team or something.
6. 2

[SpanishElite]

Im a huge fan of Weis like I said.. and I really dont want to go to the job in jeopardy after every loss. I think that is an off season issue, and talking about it now is going to do nothing but hurt the team. We just need to execute. Its not like Charlie Weis forgot how to coach. We need to execute the plays called flat out.

[sreepointer]

I would hope that most fans wouldn't even be thinking about CW being in jeopardy at this point. The two deep was pretty much turned over completely after 2006, and it takes time. If even half of the 4* and 5 * recruits he has brought in in the last two classes play to thier potential, things will turn around. Perhaps I am wrong, but patience is key, and I want CW to be the one to return the Irish to were they belong.

[SanDiegoIrishFan]

I would hope that most fans wouldn't even be thinking about CW being in jeopardy at this point. The two deep was pretty much turned over completely after 2006, and it takes time. If even half of the 4* and 5 * recruits he has brought in in the last two classes play to thier potential, things will turn around. Perhaps I am wrong, but patience is key, and I want CW to be the one to return the Irish to were they belong.
Disagree. The o-line are all Jrs and Srs with experience. They should be better and yet they are not. We can't run the ball. At all! Our D-line is all Jrs and Srs except Williams is a Soph. We can't stop the run, even when we know it is coming.

We are going to be mediocre this year and probably next. I don't see the linemen mnaking significant strides from Jr to Sr year. If ND is not a top 25 team next year, CW will be gone and I would support it.

[rontdtarchala]

gotta agree with sandy on this one... although we are somewhat younger on oline... remember its not the class but years as starter that matters (according to coach). I tend to not agree with that train of thought but that's why I watch on tv he stands on the sideline... we must... must... get better at oline and dline or heads must roll... they are pathetic to say the least and every one of our opponents know it. we are not good enough to loose the ball once let alone a handfull of times...

[marv81s]

embarrassing is the term i would use for a lot of ND "fans" reaction to this one loss this past weekend

the message board at rivals and blue and gold's have been just a f'n disgrace.

[rebuildtherocket]

When we kick field goals I usually go to the bathroom cause I no what is going to happen. I used to go at commercial breaks but those seem more interesting than are kicking game. We cant even kick the ball past the 15 on kickoffs and are punts make me wonder if are trainers are leaving in guys with pulled hamstrings.

[rebuildtherocket]

I would agree I was shocked to see some of the tag lines in the papers and at different websites. This was the first lost in a long time that I wasnt pissed off. I thought are defense looked alright and made some good stops it was 3 to 0 at halftime and the last other than the last touchdown they scored I thought we looked alright. Clausen looked really good for not having a running game cant imagine what he would do if we did have one. Kumara gives up on routes or doesnt no what route to run and we cant score in the redzone because the field is shortened because of no running game. We will be ok damn it I didnt think we were going to win a national title, give it time. I think we will get a lot better.

[SanDiegoIrishFan]

embarrassing is the term i would use for a lot of ND "fans" reaction to this one loss this past weekend

the message board at rivals and blue and gold's have been just a f'n disgrace.
I thought we are supposed to discuss our thoughts openly and honestly even if they are not always complimentary. We should not be embarrassed because we are unhappy with the loss and the play of our team. That's what message boards are for.

[marv81s]

I thought we are supposed to discuss our thoughts openly and honestly even if they are not always complimentary. We should not be embarrassed because we are unhappy with the loss and the play of our team. That's what message boards are for.

to a point yes, others should really think before posting. Just because it is a message board doesn't mean people shouldn't put something resembling a thought into it.

one thread after another with morons talking about Weis is a f'n idiot, ND sucks, why can't ND be more like Susc, lsu, I wish meyer, skip holtz, who replaces Weis, blah blah blah. All I am asking is that people use something resembling a thought process went into their post and use something resembling common sense.

get the point?


if nobody can honestly see the rebuidling process being built at ND, then they should take off the homer glasses, stop listening to the talking heads at the booya network, or reading other sports "journalist" talk about how shitty ND is, how bad weis is, and maybe these "fans" should do their homework some more and see how truly bad this program was and where it was heading before Weis was hired.

There are a lot of fickle fans out there and this 1 loss is bringing them out of the woodwork. If these morons got their way and Weis was for some reason fired this year, that would set the program back a year or two.

[rontdtarchala]

yeah point is well taken and I for one have not called for weiss' head... I do feel however that there is simply a lack of... (fill in the blank) on several levels of leadership... we have big strong young men on our lines and they are not getting it done... there is a reason and that reason needs to be rectified quickly... yes it is only one loss but marv look where we truly could be if we could just blow a hole in the dline once in a while... jimmy's got enough pressure on himself without adding the pressure of not being able to run... everything falls on his head and his receivers heads... we have talent in the back field but how long would it take you to say ...k it they ain't blocking for me why should I kill myself for them... the season is young now latina needs to change his training manual and teach these kids how to run block... hey lead follow or get the hell outa the way....jmo

[SanDiegoIrishFan]

to a point yes, others should really think before posting. Just because it is a message board doesn't mean people shouldn't put something resembling a thought into it.

one thread after another with morons talking about Weis is a f'n idiot, ND sucks, why can't ND be more like Susc, lsu, I wish meyer, skip holtz, who replaces Weis, blah blah blah. All I am asking is that people use something resembling a thought process went into their post and use something resembling common sense.

get the point?


if nobody can honestly see the rebuidling process being built at ND, then they should take off the homer glasses, stop listening to the talking heads at the booya network, or reading other sports "journalist" talk about how shitty ND is, how bad weis is, and maybe these "fans" should do their homework some more and see how truly bad this program was and where it was heading before Weis was hired.

There are a lot of fickle fans out there and this 1 loss is bringing them out of the woodwork. If these morons got their way and Weis was for some reason fired this year, that would set the program back a year or two.
I get your point. I am not calling anybody names and I am not calling for Charlie's head yet, but I can't be happy with a game like that either. It was a winable game even in to the 4th Qtr and we just kind of let MSU dominate.

I agree we are still rebuilding and I didn't expect a no-loss season, but I also wouldn't say we got better from last week to this week. I am hoping to see improvement next week.

[Sweeney6083]

It's embarrassing when you have a bunch of fans who think one loss on the road to a better team means that we are not allowed to play anymore and we will never get better.

[mlcspinner]

time to focus on Purdue and get to 3-1

[sonomairishfan]

3 and 1 has a very nice ring to it.

I hope one of our guys puts a hole in that annoying drum that Pudouche has.

go irish!

[irish_bobcat]

Including when you only had 3 wins total all last season. 3-1 sounds great.

[Flyin_Irish]

It's embarrassing when you have a bunch of fans who think one loss on the road to a better team means that we are not allowed to play anymore and we will never get better.

The bolded part is debatable. The part about embarassing fans making overboard statements based on one game is accurate. I think this team will improve. I think our skill guys are young. Our OL underacheived on Saturday. The real true test of Charlie Weis and this team is what will happen when we've got the entire '08 season under our belt and a ton of time to prepare for a bowl game. We have the talent to compete with anyone. If we don't qualify for a bowl, the season is a collossal failure. If we lose a bowl game to a team with lesser talent...failure. If we win a bowl game...we'll go from there and hopefully be a very, very good team in '09.

[Revolver]

All I want is an offensive line like the Cowboys had in the early to mid nineties or the Redskins had in the eighties. Is that too much to ask?

[SpanishElite]

All I want is an offensive line like the Cowboys had in the early to mid nineties or the Redskins had in the eighties. Is that too much to ask?

Yes. Those are pro lines, these are college kids.

[Sweeney6083]

The bolded part is debatable. The part about embarassing fans making overboard statements based on one game is accurate. I think this team will improve. I think our skill guys are young. Our OL underacheived on Saturday. The real true test of Charlie Weis and this team is what will happen when we've got the entire '08 season under our belt and a ton of time to prepare for a bowl game. We have the talent to compete with anyone. If we don't qualify for a bowl, the season is a collossal failure. If we lose a bowl game to a team with lesser talent...failure. If we win a bowl game...we'll go from there and hopefully be a very, very good team in '09.

Not meaning to call you out, but, do we really see what happens at each practice, do we know the players personally , do we actually see anything other then 1 game a week. NO we don't so based on a tiny amount of time a week we see this team. We really have no idea who might be playing hurt who might have been overrated or underated. Most importantly I am sure the staff is well aware of the teams defects and considering there our team I have no other choice but to trust that they are doing everything in there power to make this team Better! I am guilty from time to time of trying to pretend like I know what we are doing right and wrong but I truly don't ever know why our plays don't work in the run game. But I have to for my sanity cheer for this team I love so much no matter how good, bad or indifferent they are and if I become a fan who bitches about the coaches then I am really not doing the team any favors or helping any of the recuirts who read these boards and yes they read them. I will follow this team up and down and I have to support them no matter what. Bashing 20 year olds is not my thing. Also as Lou once said "When kids deserve love the least the need it the most". I can't think of anything more counterproductive then saying they were embarassing on a well read ND Site. If I played for the team it would bother me. So I can only imagine thata it bothers them. Ok I am out of breath , just wanted to throw in my two cents it is not directed at anyone in praticular but its something I have found myself getting caught up in and especially after games(feeling emotional). Thought it might be time to move on to purdue.

[Revolver]

Yes. Those are pro lines, these are college kids.

Come on. I was clearly making a joke to lighten the mood a bit in the thread. I don't seriously expect ND to field a line like two of the greatest lines in the history of football.:rofl:

[SpanishElite]

Come on. I was clearly making a joke to lighten the mood a bit in the thread. I don't seriously expect ND to field a line like two of the greatest lines in the history of football.:rofl:

haha I know :bigsmile:

[Flyin_Irish]

Not meaning to call you out, but, do we really see what happens at each practice, do we know the players personally , do we actually see anything other then 1 game a week. NO we don't so based on a tiny amount of time a week we see this team. We really have no idea who might be playing hurt who might have been overrated or underated. Most importantly I am sure the staff is well aware of the teams defects and considering there our team I have no other choice but to trust that they are doing everything in there power to make this team Better! I am guilty from time to time of trying to pretend like I know what we are doing right and wrong but I truly don't ever know why our plays don't work in the run game. But I have to for my sanity cheer for this team I love so much no matter how good, bad or indifferent they are and if I become a fan who bitches about the coaches then I am really not doing the team any favors or helping any of the recuirts who read these boards and yes they read them. I will follow this team up and down and I have to support them no matter what. Bashing 20 year olds is not my thing. Also as Lou once said "When kids deserve love the least the need it the most". I can't think of anything more counterproductive then saying they were embarassing on a well read ND Site. If I played for the team it would bother me. So I can only imagine thata it bothers them. Ok I am out of breath , just wanted to throw in my two cents it is not directed at anyone in praticular but its something I have found myself getting caught up in and especially after games(feeling emotional). Thought it might be time to move on to purdue.

I don't even know what you'd be calling me out on. The only kind of negative thing I said is that the O line underacheived...and Charlie basically said the exact same thing in his post game press conferences. He said he was very disappointed that we were not able to run the ball. So, no, I'm not at practice. But when Charlie says his plan is to establish a running game and we are completely unable to do that, obviously someone did not perform up to expectations. And most of that falls on the O line.

Otherwise, I'm saying we probably won't have a real grasp on just how good this team is until the WHOLE season, including a bowl game, is over. And people who are flipping out because we sucked for one game are probably going a bit overboard. Let's beat Purdue and reevaluate this team.